The mash and the meaningless

Ali Salimi & Tom Dickerson

HOST Bob Simon
FEATURED SPIRITS Whiskey Row, Nikka Coffey Malt Whisky
DATE 25 August 2022

About This Episode

What do Persian comedy, the X-Men, bad faith litigation, lost cars and top-shelf whiskey all have in common? Nothing— and that's the beauty of it. Dive into the mash and the meaningless with Bob Simon, co-host Kristopher Hart, and guests Ali Salimi and Tom Dickerson for another sidesplitting session of Bourbon of Proof.

Ali Salimi, The Auto Accident Attorneys Group

Tom Dickerson, Dickerson Oxton


Bob Simon (00:00):
... The reason we have you guys together, and we're going to talk about this, your wives are your partners.

Ali Salimi (00:06):

Tom Dickerson (00:07):
That's a fact.

Kristopher Hart (00:21):
Wait, what does that mean?

Bob Simon (00:21):
We look like brothers. Let's be real.

Ali Salimi (00:24):
Unfortunately for you.

Bob Simon (00:24):
Yeah. I told this joke earlier, but I think it's really funny, where was your mom in 1985?

Tom Dickerson (00:36):
Now, what do you think?

Kristopher Hart (00:38):
Oh my God, here we go, here we go.

Tom Dickerson (00:38):
What do you have to say about this? I'm so aggressive. He's going to hate.

Kristopher Hart (00:42):
No, no, it's all positive.

Bob Simon (00:53):
Well, welcome this episode of Bourbon of Proof. We are very honored to have two very fun individuals: we have Kris Hart, Whiskey Pete, whiskey neat, who's going to co-host. He knows more about whiskey than I do. I'll be more of your color guy for this one, but it's fine. We have Ali Salmi coming from Atlanta. We look like brothers. Let's be real.

Ali Salimi (01:12):
Unfortunately for you.

Bob Simon (01:13):
Yeah. I told this joke earlier, but I think it's really funny: where was your mom in 1985? We even laugh the same. Yeah, it's kind of awkward for you. I don't know, but it's good. Tom Dickerson coming from Kansas City. The reason we have you guys together, and we're going to talk about this, your wives are your partners.

Ali Salimi (01:36):

Tom Dickerson (01:37):
That's a fact.

Kristopher Hart (01:38):
Wait, what does that mean?

Bob Simon (01:39):
They're lawyers. Their wife is also a lawyer. They're partners at their firm.

Kristopher Hart (01:43):
Okay. How do those arguments go?

Ali Salimi (01:48):
I assume much like any other argument where the wives always win.

Tom Dickerson (01:51):
Arbitration's involved.

Bob Simon (01:51):

Tom Dickerson (01:53):
You try to be as quiet as possible is what you do.

Kristopher Hart (01:57):
Well, that's awesome.

Ali Salimi (01:59):
My experience has been, I feel like it's made the home life a little bit better because it's not like her and I are coming from two separate areas, and then we convene in home base.

Bob Simon (02:08):

Ali Salimi (02:09):
... And the other person doesn't know what you've gone through. We've been together all day, so even if we're frustrated with each other, it's like, "Okay, I understand. I want to tell you to fuck off, but I'm stressed out too. You just do what you need to do."

Kristopher Hart (02:23):
How do you formally tell her to fuck off? Is it like a cease and desist?

Bob Simon (02:25):
You can't.

Kristopher Hart (02:25):
You send her a cease and desist?

Bob Simon (02:27):
He hires another lawyer and sends it over, right? That's what you have to do.

Ali Salimi (02:33):
Yeah, pretty much.

Bob Simon (02:34):
We got to get hot real quick.

Kristopher Hart (02:36):
Oh yes, let's do this.

Ali Salimi (02:36):
Let's do it.

Bob Simon (02:36):
Ali brought this.

Ali Salimi (02:37):

Bob Simon (02:37):
And we're going to cheers first, and we're going to talk about this. You're going to like this, Kris. You've never had it.

Kristopher Hart (02:47):
Whiskey Row, huh?

Bob Simon (02:48):
It's much better than you thought it would be.

Kristopher Hart (02:55):
I had no preconceived notions going into this, as my formal statement.

Bob Simon (02:59):
Okay. Don't talk yet, but it's smooth for what it is. It's over $100 a bottle.

Kristopher Hart (03:04):
I like a good bite. It's definitely got it. I feel it in my throat.

Tom Dickerson (03:07):
This is rye, isn't it?

Kristopher Hart (03:08):
Yeah, no.

Tom Dickerson (03:08):
No, really?

Kristopher Hart (03:09):
It's got some rye in it, for sure.

Tom Dickerson (03:11):
I was going to say I could really feel the mash poking around in there.

Bob Simon (03:17):
We were on the trail together yesterday. He had a very funny moment at this distillery. This is at the Jefferson one, right?

Ali Salimi (03:23):
That was it.

Bob Simon (03:24):
So I never heard of this whiskey, but this, you can only get in Kentucky. You can't ship it out of here, the Whiskey Row ones. We'll pair this with a video because I have the second part of this on video where he does this very cute pose.

Ali Salimi (03:40):
It's adorable.

Bob Simon (03:41):
Oh, is this on the buffalo?

Ali Salimi (03:42):
I think I saw this.

Kristopher Hart (03:43):
I think I saw this.

Bob Simon (03:43):
Really? you saw the buffalo one?

Kristopher Hart (03:44):
I saw this.

Bob Simon (03:44):
He did it on top of this old truck outside of the distillery. He gets on top of the truck and does this cute little pose, and 10 minutes after, we're just sitting outside the bus, we're waiting to go on the next delivery, and this groundwater just starts fucking pouring out from out at the truck. He's laughing. I don't know if you're culpable right now, but after this happened, this weird fucking sewage water came up from under the truck, and was just pouring down. We're like, "Oh shit."

Ali Salimi (04:14):
It was really bad because my mouth was open as I was breathing, and so it got in there, and it was real thick.

Kristopher Hart (04:21):
Wait, wait. Did you break something?

Ali Salimi (04:23):
Well ...

Bob Simon (04:25):
It was weird, it was coming from the ground. This is why it's weird.

Ali Salimi (04:27):
Well, because it's right underneath the truck. I think when I climbed on top of the truck, it may have ... It was soft. It was mushy. I think maybe the truck went down a little bit.

Bob Simon (04:36):
[Morrow 00:04:36] was also in the truck. He was back in the thing, he was in the bed, just full disclosure.

Ali Salimi (04:42):
We're like two peas in a pod, Morrow and I.

Kristopher Hart (04:45):
I feel like there are enough lawyers here, and I've always wondered this because we talked about this in the last episode, has there ever been something done on these interviews that might affect a case?

Bob Simon (04:54):
Oh dude ...

Tom Dickerson (04:55):
Dude, I constantly wonder about that. I was wondering what I walked in. I was like, "What can I and can I not talk about?"

Kristopher Hart (04:59):
I've watched a handful of interviews and there have been some things said today.

Bob Simon (05:03):
Your kids are 16 and 17, but you have younger ones.

Kristopher Hart (05:05):
I have five and six years old as well too.

Bob Simon (05:07):
We don't talk about Bruno. Let's talk about cases, bro.

Kristopher Hart (05:09):

Bob Simon (05:11):
We don't talk about cases, no? No.

Kristopher Hart (05:14):
Yeah. Nothing has ever come up that's compromised the outcome of a case.

Bob Simon (05:19):
I think all of us here are sophisticated enough to have 10 drinks and not disclose confidential information.

Kristopher Hart (05:23):
Not me, bro. I'm no lawyer.

Bob Simon (05:27):

Kristopher Hart (05:28):
I have some things I want to say about my wife.

Bob Simon (05:30):
Tell me in my ear during [inaudible 00:05:33].

Kristopher Hart (05:32):

Bob Simon (05:33):
Tom practices with his wife out of Kansas City, huge bad faith verdicts, huge.

Kristopher Hart (05:36):
What does that mean, a bad faith verdict?

Bob Simon (05:40):
Yeah, this is great.

Tom Dickerson (05:41):
It comes in two forms. You have cases in which potentially the policy is open and you hit an excess verdict.

Bob Simon (05:48):
That means, say you have $100,000 insurance policy and you hit somebody, and they're hurt pretty bad, whatever. You expect your insurance company to pay them to cover it. If they don't cover it, you can sue your insurance company and be like, "Why the fuck? I've been paying for this? Why the fuck didn't you do that?"

Kristopher Hart (06:05):
If it was less than $100K, if it was $40,000 and they didn't cover it-

Bob Simon (06:09):
Correct. What were you doing?

Kristopher Hart (06:10):
What have I been paying you for this whole time?

Bob Simon (06:13):
Imagine if you had $100K and worth $1 million dollars.

Kristopher Hart (06:15):

Bob Simon (06:15):
The other side, the attorney is like, "Hey, can you pay us $100K," and they were like, "Nope." How would it affect you? This is where this guy comes in.

Tom Dickerson (06:20):
The beauty of it is normally you would be limited to the policy. So let's say the insurance company does the right thing, you go all the way through litigation. You might have a brain injured person. This is the inequity of it. You might have a brain injured person and their policy limit is $100K, and if the insurance company has tendered that policy early and done the right thing and paid, you'll never get more than $100K, unless you want to go after that person personally.

Tom Dickerson (06:44):
Well, you can't get blood out of a stone. People don't have that type of money lying around. If somebody's got a brain injury, that case is worth millions and millions, tens of millions of dollars potentially. They don't have that money. The beauty of bad faith is you can take these cases and the sky is the limit, it's unlimited for whatever.

Bob Simon (07:03):
That trigger is the insurance company doesn't protect you, the person as a policy. When somebody says, "Hey, we'll settle for it," and the insurance company's like, "Well, fuck you guys. Let's just wait you out."

Kristopher Hart (07:12):
Yeah, yeah.

Ali Salimi (07:13):
It's weird concept because it's the person that was at fault, right?

Bob Simon (07:17):
Yeah, yeah.

Ali Salimi (07:18):
It's not like it's compensating the victim. It's almost like the reason is the insurance company didn't protect their insured that caused it.

Kristopher Hart (07:25):

Ali Salimi (07:25):

Kristopher Hart (07:26):
Yeah, yeah. I've got this policy. I paid for it every year. I've never once filed a claim. I file a claim. You're not covering it and now I'm going to sue the shit out of you and the sky's the limit.

Bob Simon (07:34):
Yeah. Yeah, but they have to a reasonable opportunity to pay it.

Kristopher Hart (07:38):
Yeah, sure.

Tom Dickerson (07:38):

Bob Simon (07:38):
That's the only trigger, right?

Tom Dickerson (07:39):

Bob Simon (07:39):
Everywhere. We did these podcasts and that's the one consistency among all the jurisdiction. They have to have a reasonable opportunity to pay the policy.

Tom Dickerson (07:47):
Yeah. Really what that involves is you just give them a demand letter or settlement opportunity, that's the better way to call it these days. That's a Nick Rowley thing.

Bob Simon (07:54):
See? That's good.

Tom Dickerson (07:55):
No. We're getting there. Well, learn after you do these cases, a letter, juries are like, "A demand. What's a demand?" If you say, "The insurance company had a reasonable opportunity to settle," people understand that. They don't understand demand. Credit for Nick Rowley for that one.

Bob Simon (08:08):
What's up with these boots? Because I love these.

Kristopher Hart (08:10):
They're incredible, ostrich.

Tom Dickerson (08:12):
Yeah, they're ostrich. These are [TAKOVAs 00:08:14]. These were actually a gift.

Kristopher Hart (08:16):
They're ribbed for your pleasure.

Tom Dickerson (08:17):
I went and taught bad faith-

Bob Simon (08:18):
Yes, ribbed for your pleasure. This is this kind of interview.

Tom Dickerson (08:24):
I taught bad faith in spine cases to the largest personal injury firm in Kansas.

Kristopher Hart (08:29):

Bob Simon (08:30):
Four people.

Tom Dickerson (08:31):
No, no.

Kristopher Hart (08:32):
Solid burn.

Tom Dickerson (08:33):
These guys, they're your size.

Bob Simon (08:35):

Tom Dickerson (08:36):
They got 70 something employees.

Bob Simon (08:37):

Tom Dickerson (08:38):
Yeah, they got a lot of people. They're really big in Wichita. They're in Topeka. They got maybe 25 or so lawyers.

Bob Simon (08:46):
Same as us, man.

Tom Dickerson (08:46):
We just went down there. We did a workshop. We said, "Okay, this is what you should do in demands. This is how you should open policies. This is when to say, 'No,' and when to push them extra contractually."

Bob Simon (08:58):
The beautiful thing is, and you do a lot of the same philosophy, is teach first.

Tom Dickerson (09:02):

Bob Simon (09:02):
Give, give, give, because we're all in the same fucking place ... This us us. We're trying to help consumers. Teach everybody how to do this.

Tom Dickerson (09:10):
There's such a benefit for spreading that knowledge too. I just adhere to the philosophy, "When you give out to the universe, it all-

Bob Simon (09:17):
Why aren't you wearing your X-Men T-shirt? I signed it.

Tom Dickerson (09:19):
I know, right? This morning?

Bob Simon (09:20):
I'm so pissed about this. He had a beautiful weathered X-Men T-shirt.

Tom Dickerson (09:25):
Yeah. That's the only I brought on this trip and I had to get this IV because we've been drinking bourbon. I'm like, "I got to get this IV. I can't go down there. I got to be able to pull up my shirt and exposed my arm. Okay, I'm wearing my X-Men T-shirt." Truthfully, I was a huge Marvel fan growing up and I love all the new movies now.

Bob Simon (09:42):
Two or three episodes before, we had a fight. You were the DC guy?

Kristopher Hart (09:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Simon (09:46):
Fuck, it was this guy.

Kristopher Hart (09:47):
That was 30 minutes ago. You already forgot.

Bob Simon (09:49):

Kristopher Hart (09:50):
Yeah, yeah. I was the DC guy. He was talking about Marvel. But, go ahead. Talk about your shitty shirt.

Tom Dickerson (09:56):
The shirt I had was actually from the first iteration from cartoon X-men growing up.

Ali Salimi (10:03):
In the '90s.

Tom Dickerson (10:03):
I just loved it.

Ali Salimi (10:04):
So incredible.

Tom Dickerson (10:04):
The beauty is-

Bob Simon (10:05):
You can go on Disney+ right now.

Tom Dickerson (10:05):
We're talking right now.

Bob Simon (10:06):
My daughter watches it and it's so good. It was like Jubilee. She's the fucking one, I was like, "Okay."

Kristopher Hart (10:12):
Yeah, yeah, fireworks fingers.

Bob Simon (10:14):
Yeah, fireworks fingers.

Tom Dickerson (10:15):
It's awesome.

Bob Simon (10:16):
He wasn't allowed to be in Marvel because-

Kristopher Hart (10:19):
Everything looked like demons. I grew up in almost a religious cult, almost. But no. I was a big fan of Spider-Man, and at the same time, the best two shows that's ever been on TV that were Marvel were the '90s X-Men and the '90s Spider-Man.

Bob Simon (10:36):
If you watch it now, dude, it's really funny. The shit he says and does, it's really fucking funny.

Kristopher Hart (10:41):
X-Men or a Spider-Man?

Bob Simon (10:42):

Kristopher Hart (10:43):
Yeah. Mary Jane was a bitch.

Bob Simon (10:44):

Kristopher Hart (10:45):
She jumps off a roof. There's this famous clip where she jumps off a roof randomly, and he's like, "Why'd you do that?" She's like, "I just wanted to see if you loved me." All right, bitch.

Bob Simon (10:55):
No, but he does funny one quips. Oh god, it's good.

Tom Dickerson (10:58):
The thing I love about the modern Marvel deal is it's masterful storytelling. Right? They took all these individual little stories and then they built it into this big story. It's the adventure.

Kristopher Hart (11:07):
The big picture, too.

Tom Dickerson (11:08):
It's fantastic.

Kristopher Hart (11:09):
What Marvel's done in the multiverse Marvel thing.

Bob Simon (11:15):
All the MCU.

Kristopher Hart (11:16):
Yeah, the MCU. What the MCU has done-

Bob Simon (11:20):
MCU, MCU. You said T.

Kristopher Hart (11:22):
What did I say?

Bob Simon (11:22):
You said T.

Bob Simon (11:22):

Tom Dickerson (11:23):
MTU. He's really not a Marvel fan.

Kristopher Hart (11:25):
Yeah. Give me a curve.

Ali Salimi (11:25):
He has a slur.

Kristopher Hart (11:26):
This is our fourth episode, guys.

Tom Dickerson (11:29):
Respect, respect.

Kristopher Hart (11:31):
When I realized growing up that the Stephen King universe was all connected-

Bob Simon (11:35):
What? What?

Kristopher Hart (11:35):
Yes, Every book Stephen King's ever written is all connected into a multiverse, including the Shining.

Bob Simon (11:41):
No, it is not.

Ali Salimi (11:41):

Kristopher Hart (11:41):
Including It.

Bob Simon (11:42):
You can't intertwine Twit with-

Kristopher Hart (11:44):

Bob Simon (11:47):
Tommyknockers, I was thinking Tommyknockers and tit.

Kristopher Hart (11:49):
That's the worst than ... Tit?

Bob Simon (11:51):
Oh goddamn, Freudian slip. All right. speaking of Freudian slips-

Ali Salimi (11:53):
This is going everywhere.

Kristopher Hart (11:54):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Bob Simon (11:54):
We went to Pepperdine, but we were not at the same time.

Ali Salimi (11:58):
We're not at the same time.

Tom Dickerson (12:00):
So beautiful. God.

Bob Simon (12:01):
You started off doing real estate shit, right? That's why you went to law. You were like, "Fuck, this is my path."

Ali Salimi (12:06):
Yeah. I'm from Georgia. I was a banker in a previous life.

Bob Simon (12:09):
You look like a banker. By the way, you have kids on your shoes, dude, I'm looking at this.

Ali Salimi (12:13):
Yeah. These are my socks.

Bob Simon (12:14):
I want to see these shoes, can I see these kids?

Ali Salimi (12:17):
My kids are-

Kristopher Hart (12:19):
Wait, those are pictures of my kids.

Ali Salimi (12:20):
You break it to me on a show.

Bob Simon (12:24):
This is Jerry Springer. Wow, no.

Ali Salimi (12:30):
They're on YouTube all the time and they want to be on podcasts, so I know they're going to watch this. I'll bleep it out for them. I was like, "This is my way of having them."

Bob Simon (12:38):
How old are your kids?

Ali Salimi (12:40):
They're six and eight.

Bob Simon (12:41):

Ali Salimi (12:42):
Yeah. By the way, you're talking about his X-Men T-shirt, I didn't have a suit when I got here. My girl, Jeanie Foley at Suit Shop had this shipped on St. Patrick's Day.

Bob Simon (12:53):
I love it.

Kristopher Hart (12:54):
It looks great.

Ali Salimi (12:54):
It arrived yesterday. I found a tailor to hem the pants this morning.

Kristopher Hart (12:58):

Ali Salimi (12:58):
And now I'm wearing a suit. It was one of the easiest suit transactions everything, not tailored, nothing.

Kristopher Hart (13:02):
This is the difference between you and I. Lawyers, "I had a suit flown in. I had it fitted in 24 hours." The hotel lost my fucking car.

Bob Simon (13:11):
Wait, oh dude. Yesterday, he showed up late to the whole fucking bourbon trail. The hotel lost his car.

Kristopher Hart (13:18):
They lost my rent-a-car. They valeted it. They're like, "I don't know where it is."

Bob Simon (13:20):
Gone, gone.

Kristopher Hart (13:23):
Yeah, and you had a suit flown in?

Bob Simon (13:25):
Since we're recording, he had a Van Gogh that he was traveling with.

Ali Salimi (13:29):
Oh man.

Kristopher Hart (13:30):
$7 million, yeah.

Ali Salimi (13:33):
That's the car you were telling me to have the glove compartment full of Faberge eggs?

Bob Simon (13:39):
That was it.

Ali Salimi (13:39):
The Rolex, yeah.

Bob Simon (13:39):
You don't want to tell the story, because the Russian thing? God. Yeah, I remember.

Kristopher Hart (13:42):
Yeah. You say that, but our valet ticket says, "Our maximum level of culpability is $500." I don't think that's good.

Bob Simon (13:47):
That's an adhesion contract.

Tom Dickerson (13:48):
That doesn't mean anything.

Bob Simon (13:49):
Tom, tell him. No, no.

Tom Dickerson (13:50):
No, no, man.

Kristopher Hart (13:50):
What's an adhesion contract. Oh my God. I love this context.

Tom Dickerson (13:52):
An adhesion contact, those are all insurance contracts, my friend. You don't get to negotiate the terms.

Kristopher Hart (13:58):
Right, you just receive them.

Tom Dickerson (13:59):

Bob Simon (14:01):
Nobody actually signs off on that shit.

Tom Dickerson (14:02):
Yeah. Most of the time they're unenforceable, but to the extent they are enforceable, all of the terms are construed against the drafter of the contract.

Kristopher Hart (14:11):
This is exactly how I felt when they told me they lost my car and I read the thing about the level of maximum culpability. I thought, "I'm at a conference with 200 lawyers. I'm not really worried about this."

Bob Simon (14:23):
Imagine in California, the maximum level of culpability for somebody hurt by medical negligence, if you go in, they cut off the wrong arm, if you have an amputation and they caught the wrong arm, $250,000.

Tom Dickerson (14:34):
It's unbelievable.

Bob Simon (14:35):
Yeah, your eyebrows, people don't know that shit, man. It's fucking crazy.

Kristopher Hart (14:39):
The maximum level is $250K with no arm.

Bob Simon (14:42):
In 1976, with no fucking inflation, which you know what that is.

Kristopher Hart (14:47):
What do you all do in those situations.

Ali Salimi (14:48):
Every time you try it on the ballot-

Bob Simon (14:50):
Guys like this, these guys here, you can't take those cases. It's too expensive. We're trying to make money as a business. You cannot do it. We will do that case for free and pay $200,000 to get $250,000.

Tom Dickerson (15:01):

Bob Simon (15:02):
Yeah, bro.

Ali Salimi (15:03):
The crazy thing is every time it comes on a ballot-

Bob Simon (15:05):
Let's do another pour before we talk about sad shit.

Kristopher Hart (15:08):
Yeah, yeah. Can we do this?

Tom Dickerson (15:08):
Yeah. I'm about excited, okay.

Bob Simon (15:10):
He's super excited.

Kristopher Hart (15:11):
Do you know a lot about this?

Tom Dickerson (15:17):
I know a lot about it. I'll let you talk first.

Kristopher Hart (15:19):
No, no, no. I want you to talk.

Tom Dickerson (15:19):

Kristopher Hart (15:20):
Everybody is talking.

Tom Dickerson (15:21):
I got on this, got on this Japanese whiskey kick a while ago. In 2007, I got into bourbons and I tried every bourbon I possibly could. Then I decided to transition a little bit, so I started trying Japanese whiskeys. The interesting thing about Japanese whiskey is it started off as scotch imitation. When Japan was starting to modernize, they went over to Scotland and they started to make whiskey. All of the initial Japanese whiskeys are all scotch imitations.

Bob Simon (15:53):
That why I don't like them.

Tom Dickerson (15:54):
Well, and I don't like them either, because I don't like to peat.

Bob Simon (15:56):
There you go.

Tom Dickerson (15:57):
This is not at all.

Bob Simon (15:59):
I know. All my friends like this.

Tom Dickerson (16:00):
Oh, it's so good.

Bob Simon (16:02):
I haven't had it yet, so I'm interested.

Tom Dickerson (16:02):
Oh, well this is fantastic then. This is made in-

Kristopher Hart (16:06):
Bro, you know what? I'm dying right now.

Bob Simon (16:08):
He's chomping.

Tom Dickerson (16:09):
The thing that's so good about it-

Bob Simon (16:10):
He's either really happy or really mad.

Tom Dickerson (16:12):
The thing that's so good about it is Japanese culture, they try to perfect everything. I feel that this is a modern intonation of Japan's attempt to hybridize bourbon and Irish whiskey. The body's great. It's super sweet. It smells great. It's great. Now, it's made in a coffee still, which is totally different. I'll talk to people and they'll be like, "Oh it says coffee. It's going to taste like coffee." No, it doesn't taste like coffee. It has nothing to do with that. It's made a coffee still, which is a column still.

Bob Simon (16:42):
Because they don't know better.

Tom Dickerson (16:43):
It's just a column still, but most whiskey made in Japan is actually made in a pot still, which that's how they make a lot of stuff.

Bob Simon (16:50):
You hate pot stills.

Tom Dickerson (16:51):

Kristopher Hart (16:51):
No, no, I don't hate pot stills, but go ahead.

Tom Dickerson (16:54):
I love this stuff. I think it's fantastic. It's my absolute favorite whiskey out of bourbons or anything else. It really is. I'm glad to share it now. Now, boom, what do you think? Let's do it,

Kristopher Hart (17:03):
Oh my God, here we go here, here we go.

Tom Dickerson (17:04):
What do you have to say about this? I'm interested.

Bob Simon (17:07):
He's going to hate.

Kristopher Hart (17:07):
No, no. It's all positive, it's all positive. Yes, you're right, Scotland or not Scotland, but Japan, their entire whiskey industry is modeled directly after Scotland. In fact, a lot of things sold, they have very loose laws there currently, which there was recent.

Bob Simon (17:25):
They have underwear in vending machines.

Kristopher Hart (17:28):
Yeah, yeah. There was a recent change in the last year or so-

Bob Simon (17:30):
I thought it was true.

Ali Salimi (17:31):
I've seen that.

Bob Simon (17:32):
Is that a wives tale?

Kristopher Hart (17:33):
No, that's a real thing. In Japan, you can go buy used underwear in a vending machine.

Ali Salimi (17:38):
Or so you've heard.

Kristopher Hart (17:39):
Yeah. We have a third business, but let's not talk about that right now. I'm wearing them now.

Bob Simon (17:47):
Aged 12 years.

Kristopher Hart (17:48):
Yeah. So yes, they're all modeled after Scotland, pots stills. I like pots still. I like scotch. I don't like pot still bourbon. I like column bourbon.

Bob Simon (17:59):
Okay, okay.

Kristopher Hart (18:01):
Most bourbon is made in column stills. Japan's actually quite obsessed with Kentucky. Some of the best whiskeys-

Bob Simon (18:10):
They do a lot of blatant ones in Japan.

Kristopher Hart (18:13):
Yes, correct. There's a bottle off camera there that's from Japan. It was Japanese export from Kentucky because before we had our bourbon boom here in the US, it was already happening in Japan. The coffee malt, and there's another one coffee grain.

Tom Dickerson (18:30):
Yep, absolutely.

Kristopher Hart (18:31):
The coffee grain's 95% corn whiskey, column still. I think the coffee malt is mostly barley.

Tom Dickerson (18:37):
Malted barley, yep. Correct.

Kristopher Hart (18:38):
Yeah. It's absolutely tremendous. You're absolutely right. There is a lot of hype behind Japanese bourbon right now, but is very expensive and it's ultimately scotch. For instance, Nika from the barrel is actually ...

Tom Dickerson (18:52):
It's very peaty, you could taste the smokiness.

Kristopher Hart (18:54):
It's actually from Scotland, the vast majority.

Tom Dickerson (18:56):

Kristopher Hart (18:57):
Yes. The vast majority of it was just imported from Scotland as scotch. Then they just teaspoon, it's called a teaspoon malt where if you bring in-

Bob Simon (19:07):
I couldn't wait, it's fine.

Tom Dickerson (19:09):
I've been drinking it too.

Kristopher Hart (19:10):
I haven't tried yet. Let's try it.

Bob Simon (19:11):
It's fine.

Tom Dickerson (19:12):
Okay. Here we go. We're going to try it simultaneously.

Bob Simon (19:14):
Hanson, is he.

Tom Dickerson (19:15):
The Cheers voice.

Bob Simon (19:16):
I think it fucks, it fucks. He met Morrow and he's like, "I watched the episode," and he looked at Morrow and he goes, "That guy definitely fucks."

Kristopher Hart (19:26):
I heard the story about getting robbed after a poker game. I'm like, "That guy has definitely paid for sex."

Ali Salimi (19:34):
the best part of that story was he got robbed, but his friend got shot.

Kristopher Hart (19:37):
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Simon (19:38):
It's true.

Kristopher Hart (19:39):
It's the greatest story of all time. I'll tell you a story. I thought about this last night. We got cameras installed at the house. I've got teenage kids. I don't want anyone sneaking out and I definitely don't want anyone sneaking in, but we also have about 1200 bottles that we use for events and stuff that we want to make sure we keep an eye on it. They're amazing. Do you have Ring?

Bob Simon (20:03):

Kristopher Hart (20:03):
Ring's amazing. Right? You can talk through it. I get a notification one night that someone's in my garage at 2:00 AM in the morning.

Ali Salimi (20:10):
Oh Lord.

Kristopher Hart (20:11):
I pull it up.

Bob Simon (20:12):
Dude, if this was around when I was a kid, my dad would've been like, "You're stealing the fucking whiskey."

Kristopher Hart (20:16):
Yeah, yeah.

Tom Dickerson (20:17):
Every night.

Bob Simon (20:18):
We filled it with water and one day he drank it and he was so pissed.

Kristopher Hart (20:22):
I pulled it up and I see at the far end of the garage, way away from the bottles, I see all my wife in a towel, grabbing something out of the dryer. I think, "Oh, all right, it's been 15 years, let's add a little spice to this." I pull up my phone and you can talk through it. Right? There's little microphone. I'm like, "Let's drop the towel and show daddy what you got." She stands up and she turns around and she goes, "Daddy?" It was my daughter.

Bob Simon (20:50):
Oh no.

Tom Dickerson (20:50):
Oh man.

Kristopher Hart (20:52):
It was my 16 year old daughter. I said, "Daddy."

Tom Dickerson (20:55):

Bob Simon (20:59):
It'll going to cost you 10 years of fucking counting, bro.

Kristopher Hart (21:00):
I was like, "What are you doing? I'm going to bed. You're grounded."

Ali Salimi (21:04):
My kids are definitely not going to watch this podcast.

Kristopher Hart (21:07):
My wife called me within 10 seconds, and as soon as I hit answer, I just hear her cackling for 30 seconds straight. To this day, they still make fun of me for it. "Look, it was late. I thought you were in bed."

Bob Simon (21:20):
These are lessons we got to start learning.

Ali Salimi (21:23):
Yeah. I want to forget that entire story.

Bob Simon (21:24):
Ali, I love how you have your face pin right here.

Ali Salimi (21:29):
Oh, thank you.

Bob Simon (21:30):
We have a very similar profile, right? I would wear this.

Ali Salimi (21:35):
Whoa, it's funny that you say that Bob.

Bob Simon (21:37):
No way. This is not scripted. By the way, this is not scripted. I'm going to wear it.

Ali Salimi (21:44):
I can remake it with an LA hat. That's got Braves hat on it.

Bob Simon (21:48):
I'm not a fucking LA hat guy. Put a Pittsburgh Pirate hat on it, maybe.

Ali Salimi (21:51):
Pittsburgh, yeah. He's wearing green. The face is on my profile pictures for everything on social media, on Uber.

Bob Simon (22:04):
Man, every time I see this, I think of you when I see this logo.

Ali Salimi (22:08):

Kristopher Hart (22:08):
Is it a social media thing or are you you building a brand?

Bob Simon (22:12):
He's a whole brand in Atlanta, Georgia. This is him.

Ali Salimi (22:14):
We're essentially all brands at this point. Right? What Warhol said is coming true.

Bob Simon (22:22):
I'm a big fan of your social. We never met until yesterday on the bourbon trail. We've talked here and there. But Ali has very cool stuff, very informative, the videos of how you do stuff. The big Mac stuff was genius, stacking policies. He actually does real educational stuff, but it's funny. You're with your kids, your wife, they practice together, like you two. He's out just living life with his children.

Ali Salimi (22:46):
Well, the reason I ended up at Pepperdine, Bob, was because I wanted to be a standup comedian.

Bob Simon (22:50):
Get the fuck out of here.

Kristopher Hart (22:51):
Oh my God.

Ali Salimi (22:52):
I'm on YouTube, Persian comic.

Kristopher Hart (22:53):
Oh my God.

Bob Simon (22:54):

Ali Salimi (22:55):
I didn't make it. [inaudible 00:22:57]

Bob Simon (22:57):
Okay. We're going to film this, and right here, we're going to put the Ali Persian comic right here, bombing right here.

Ali Salimi (23:04):
Yeah. It wasn't great, obviously. My fallback plan was to become an attorney.

Bob Simon (23:10):
Can I put a Persian this close to my neck?

Ali Salimi (23:13):
As long as you're not in an airport, it's fine.

Bob Simon (23:16):
How often you get stopped because of the beard, because I get stopped because of the beard. It's profiling.

Ali Salimi (23:20):
Well, I don't think it's the beard. I'm pretty sure it's my identification. How often? Literally every time.

Bob Simon (23:26):

Ali Salimi (23:26):
Every time, it's an issue.

Bob Simon (23:27):
My wife and kids, every time we've traveled internationally, they pull me aside all the time. It's because of you, fucking asshole. They do the face scan and it comes up as you.

Ali Salimi (23:37):
That's my fault. Sorry.

Bob Simon (23:40):
Oh god.

Kristopher Hart (23:40):
I'm the opposite. I'm like, "How dare you." Sir, right this way, right this way.

Ali Salimi (23:47):
You start rolling up your sleeve. Have you seen the skin tone, sir?

Bob Simon (23:52):
Not been touched.

Kristopher Hart (23:53):
I just show them my credit score. Right this way, right this way.

Ali Salimi (23:58):
Oh, it's funny. I also show them your credit score.

Kristopher Hart (24:00):
You were a standup comic?

Ali Salimi (24:01):
I was a standup comic.

Kristopher Hart (24:04):
I'm obsessed with standup comics. I've told that story on stage,

Bob Simon (24:07):
Were age talking about this.

Ali Salimi (24:07):

Kristopher Hart (24:08):
Yeah. The story about my daughter, I did an open mic. He was like, "Dude, do five minutes." I'm like, "I have one thing I can tell that's really embarrassing." He was like, "Just do it." It was a nightmare. The first time I did it, it was great. The second time I did it was right after the George Floyd thing.

Ali Salimi (24:23):

Kristopher Hart (24:24):
That story did not go well.

Ali Salimi (24:27):
Back to the skin tone.

Kristopher Hart (24:28):
Yeah. I get up on stage, I apologize immediately. How often did you do it? Tell me the story.

Ali Salimi (24:39):
Believe it or not, I actually decided to get into standup comedy because I was a shy kid.

Bob Simon (24:44):
You were a shy kid?

Ali Salimi (24:47):
Yeah. I'm still very shy.

Bob Simon (24:50):
Get the fuck out of here.

Ali Salimi (24:52):
I'm telling you.

Tom Dickerson (24:53):
I'm kind of the same way, man.

Ali Salimi (24:56):
Clearly. No, this is years of overcoming the inhibition of speaking or saying anything out loud, but in middle school, I found out that if I made kids laugh, I wasn't going to be a target for anything. Right?

Bob Simon (25:10):

Ali Salimi (25:11):
My parents are Persian. I grew up in the South and they named me Muhammad Ali. Not fantastic for me in Georgia.

Kristopher Hart (25:21):
Especially about 2001, yeah, yeah.

Ali Salimi (25:23):
Well, 2001 was actually ... You introduced me as Ali. My full name is Muhammad Ali. I went to the University of Georgia. The senior year career fair was scheduled for September 12th, 2001.

Bob Simon (25:36):

Ali Salimi (25:37):
So immediately I didn't know what to do. My transcripts weren't going to match. The only thing I could do was just drop the Muhammad down to an M. I was like, "I'll go with Ali." I got a job, so things worked out all right.

Bob Simon (25:49):

Ali Salimi (25:49):
Yeah. So I've been going by Ali since, I know the exact date, September 12th, 2001.

Bob Simon (25:57):

Kristopher Hart (25:58):
That is incredible.

Bob Simon (25:59):
That's crazy.

Kristopher Hart (25:59):
That is incredible.

Bob Simon (25:59):
I didn't know you are M.

Ali Salimi (26:01):
M. Ali.

Bob Simon (26:02):
So you're Madam Ali.

Ali Salimi (26:03):

Kristopher Hart (26:05):
Mrs. Ali. It's funny. My real name's actually Matthew McConaughey, but I don't tell anybody.

Bob Simon (26:12):
Do you wear deodorant? I hear you don't.

Kristopher Hart (26:14):
I definitely don't. No.

Ali Salimi (26:16):
All right. All right. All right.

Kristopher Hart (26:17):
A little bourbon, little bourbon.

Bob Simon (26:19):
All right. So Tom, we're going to go back to you practicing with your wife out of Kansas City. You do high profile cases all around the country. I just have to ask, because you guys both do it with your wives. What's it like when you have to fucking travel all the time? Because you are all across the country, man.

Tom Dickerson (26:35):

Bob Simon (26:36):
And you got kids too, so how do you balance that?

Tom Dickerson (26:38):
Yeah. It's really difficult. I'll just be honest with you, man. It's really tough.

Bob Simon (26:42):
We're going to do one last pour before we go with your Kansas City one.

Tom Dickerson (26:45):
Sure, sure.

Kristopher Hart (26:46):
This one?

Tom Dickerson (26:47):
Yeah, you want to?

Bob Simon (26:48):
I want this one. We have to do this.

Tom Dickerson (26:53):
I got to give you Pendergast cocktail, man. We got to make it. This has a great story. Rieger used to be a pre-Prohibition whiskey and it went out during Prohibition and they did their best to recreate it. They modernized it.

Tom Dickerson (27:10):
The guy actually opened up this hotel and grill and then he started distilling the whiskey again. When COVID happened, actually, they shut down the actual grill and the restaurant, and it was fabulous. You can go in there and get cocktails. It was great. But the guy realized that during COVID, "Hey, I could feed the homeless. I could do all these other things." He started doing that and he was like, "I'm not going to go back to the restaurant thing. I'm just going to continue to do good works."

Kristopher Hart (27:38):

Tom Dickerson (27:39):
Fortunately, and this is why-

Kristopher Hart (27:42):
Fuck off, boring.

Tom Dickerson (27:43):
This is why. Guess what he did? The same time, they opened up their distillery and it's massive. It's in the Northland in Kansas City up along the river. It's fantastic.

Bob Simon (27:53):
What river?

Tom Dickerson (27:54):
Oh God.

Bob Simon (27:55):
Is it a big one or a small one?

Tom Dickerson (27:56):
So the Missouri and the Kansas converge, but this is the Missouri that goes through there.

Bob Simon (27:59):
Oh, the Missouri. I didn't see that one coming.

Kristopher Hart (28:01):
All right, I want to taste it.

Tom Dickerson (28:01):
Yep, yep.

Kristopher Hart (28:03):
It's a great bottle. I love the label. That color works well with whiskey.

Tom Dickerson (28:07):
Yep. The best part about the distillery is after you're done drinking-

Bob Simon (28:13):
Oh, he likes the smell.

Kristopher Hart (28:14):
It smells good, it smells really good.

Tom Dickerson (28:14):
After you get done drinking, they actually have a massive-

Bob Simon (28:17):
Oh, he's excited. This guy's excited.

Tom Dickerson (28:19):
They got a massive-

Bob Simon (28:19):
I've never seen him this excited.

Kristopher Hart (28:20):
That's why my legs are crossed.

Bob Simon (28:22):
This Toy Story 4, he was not this excited.

Tom Dickerson (28:25):
They have this massive steel slide, and so you can drink and you can slide down the slide at the end of your visit.

Bob Simon (28:30):
You can slide down on whiskey?

Tom Dickerson (28:32):
Well, a whiskey slide. Yes.

Kristopher Hart (28:34):
It's fantastic.

Tom Dickerson (28:35):

Bob Simon (28:35):

Kristopher Hart (28:36):
It's really, really good.

Bob Simon (28:37):
This is hard for him to give his approval. He does not.

Tom Dickerson (28:42):
It's really great. There's this Pendergast cocktail we make out of that's named after the mob boss in Kansas City.

Bob Simon (28:48):
Oh, this is fantastic. Why every Bob show, every mob fucking movie, the guy is from Kansas City.

Tom Dickerson (28:55):
Yeah. You talk about the KC mob.

Bob Simon (28:57):
There's a lot of guys from Kansas City for Bourbon of Proof that came in. We're like, "The guys from Kansas City are coming." It was awkward. Watch your mics.

Tom Dickerson (29:06):
We brought a whole crew.

Kristopher Hart (29:07):
Oh, what's the name of that movie that went into a show? A '90s movie?

Bob Simon (29:12):
Oh, up in North Dakota.

Kristopher Hart (29:13):

Tom Dickerson (29:14):

Kristopher Hart (29:15):
Fargo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Dickerson (29:16):
Fargo KC Mob. It's a classic story. It's on Ozark, too. On Ozark too. On Ozark, the show, they have the KC mob.

Bob Simon (29:22):
Oh, the KC mob, they are on that one.

Kristopher Hart (29:23):
That show's incredible.

Bob Simon (29:24):
Do you watch you listen to Smartless?

Tom Dickerson (29:26):
I don't.

Bob Simon (29:27):
Dude, that podcast, Jason Bateman is on it, it's fucking amazing,.

Kristopher Hart (29:30):
That dude is a sociopath.

Bob Simon (29:31):

Kristopher Hart (29:31):
He has no motions.

Bob Simon (29:32):
No. Listen to him and Will Arnett.

Kristopher Hart (29:37):

Bob Simon (29:37):

Kristopher Hart (29:38):
Oh no. You're right. Sean from Will and Grace.

Bob Simon (29:40):
Yes. There's the funniest dudes ever on that one. And they've had the one you wanted to interview. Who was your unicorn you wanted? We talked about this.

Kristopher Hart (29:50):
There's a few of them.

Bob Simon (29:51):
[inaudible 00:29:51]. Goddamn it, anyway, this guy.

Kristopher Hart (29:55):
Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember.

Bob Simon (29:57):
But they had this person on and it was the funniest episode.

Kristopher Hart (30:00):
Jason Bateman is going to go down as literally one of the most legendary actors of our generation.

Bob Simon (30:07):
The shit he says, the that shit happened to all these guys. It's no holds barred, it is very fucking funny.

Tom Dickerson (30:13):
What's the name of the podcast?

Kristopher Hart (30:14):

Tom Dickerson (30:14):

Kristopher Hart (30:16):
Jason Bateman, Will Forte.

Bob Simon (30:19):
Will Arnett.

Kristopher Hart (30:20):
Will Arnett, yeah. Then the guy from Will and Grace.

Bob Simon (30:23):
Sean Hayes.

Kristopher Hart (30:24):
Sean Hayes.

Bob Simon (30:24):
The little one, very funny. They have George. They have some very high A-list. They just say whatever the fuck they want. Yeah, anyway, get back to KC because we've got two more minutes to go before we break.

Tom Dickerson (30:35):
I'll be brief then. We have a lot on our plate at all times. Right?

Bob Simon (30:42):
Like barbecue and brisket.

Tom Dickerson (30:44):
Well, yeah, we do, we do.

Bob Simon (30:46):
Kansas City.

Kristopher Hart (30:47):
You can't forget the Burn Tens.

Bob Simon (30:49):
This guy just burned you from Houston. He said you-

Kristopher Hart (30:51):
I wouldn't call what you guys do barbecue, but go ahead.

Tom Dickerson (30:53):
He has no idea.

Ali Salimi (30:53):
So dismissive.

Tom Dickerson (30:54):
He has no idea.

Kristopher Hart (30:55):
Vinegar. Okay. I get it, I get it.

Bob Simon (30:57):
You were talking, bro. You can't put vinegar.

Tom Dickerson (31:00):
There's no vinegar sauces in Kansas City.

Kristopher Hart (31:02):
Yes, it's the shitty thin stuff.

Tom Dickerson (31:04):
He doesn't know. I will literally pay an all expenses paid trip. You can come out.

Bob Simon (31:09):
He actually sent me a bunch of barbecue from Kansas City, which we grilled it at Sebi's house.

Tom Dickerson (31:12):
I did, was it good?

Bob Simon (31:13):
Fucking fantastic.

Tom Dickerson (31:13):

Bob Simon (31:14):

Tom Dickerson (31:14):
There's no vinegar sauces in Kansas City.

Ali Salimi (31:16):
The guy from LA says the guy from Kansas City could make barbecue. All right.

Tom Dickerson (31:19):
Well, literally, okay, Kansas City's thing is our sauce is beards.

Ali Salimi (31:24):
Yeah. I was noticing that. I feel like if we all hugged, it would be like a Velcro connection.

Tom Dickerson (31:28):
All right. Should we make that an order?

Bob Simon (31:28):
No, we cannot.

Tom Dickerson (31:31):
That's right. No, they're Kansas City sauce thing is sweet and smoky. That's our thing.

Kristopher Hart (31:37):
Thin and boring. Yeah, go ahead.

Bob Simon (31:41):
Oh, wow, oh fuck. You said he's thin and boring?

Tom Dickerson (31:42):
You've said there's never been a fight on Bourbon of Proof. There might be soon. No, but it's a lot of balance. We could go home and talk about cases all day long and we're both true believers with what we do with plaintiffs.

Bob Simon (31:57):
We all are, we talk about this all the time.

Tom Dickerson (31:58):
True. So there's a lot of overlaps, but you got to take the time to really sit down. You got to date your wife. You got to go on trips. You got to do fun stuff. Right? Because part of the reason we're doing this is because it's our passion and we love doing it.

Tom Dickerson (32:11):
But the other part too, is you have to appreciate being a human being and those experiences and your relationship with your wife and your kids and all that. But the thing is, these are not mutually exclusive things. There's this old guard that is like, "You have to work and you have to do this and you have to do that." It's all bullshit. The truth is you can live a balanced life and do plaintiff work and just have the best life.

Bob Simon (32:39):
Everybody here has quality of life.

Kristopher Hart (32:41):
Oh yeah.

Bob Simon (32:41):
We're going to cheers because we have quality of life for everybody here.

Ali Salimi (32:45):

Bob Simon (32:47):
You two, thank you for coming on.

Ali Salimi (32:48):
Thanks for having me.

Bob Simon (32:48):
Thanks Ali, handsome is he, he looks just like me, and Tom Dickerson.

Ali Salimi (32:54):
Thank you.

Kristopher Hart (32:54):
All right. I'm going to get you on the karaoke mic later.

Bob Simon (32:55):

Kristopher Hart (32:55):
Say that with some soul.

Ali Salimi (32:57):
So anything to keep you off the Ring camera.

Kristopher Hart (32:59):

Bob Simon (32:59):
That's very embracing.

Tom Dickerson (33:03):
Are you ready for a barbecue boxing match?

Kristopher Hart (33:04):
I'm down.

Bob Simon (33:06):
Actually, next year when we do Bourbon of Proof, we can do the celebrity boxing. God, that sounds hot. Put vinegar on your fucking [inaudible 00:33:16]. He's so bad.

Kristopher Hart (33:17):
So you can taste it.

Bob Simon (33:18):
Thank you for coming on this episode of Bourbon of Proof. Ali, Tom, you guys have been the best.

Ali Salimi (33:22):
Thank you.

Bob Simon (33:23):

Kristopher Hart (33:24):
Cheers buddy. Love you, man. Oh my god, I'm so white.

Ali Salimi (33:29):

Bob Simon (33:30):
No, it's a very complicated handshake.

Ali Salimi (33:33):

Bob Simon (33:34):
I haven't caught on.

Kristopher Hart (33:36):
It's all on purpose.

Bob Simon (33:36):
That's the start of it. Okay. Thank you guys for coming on.

Kristopher Hart (33:38):
It's very nice meeting you guys.

Ali Salimi (33:41):
Nice meeting you too.