Garrett Brown (00:00):
Lawyers are selling all day every day, whether it's selling to a jury to try to get a verdict, whether it's selling to employees to join the firm, you're selling all day long in different ways.
Bob Simon (00:20):
The wisest people that are in our industries are people that understand sales.
Garrett Brown (00:24):
Our class is called Sales Mindset for Entrepreneurs. We're not teaching the typical sales stuff like, "Oh, here's how you overcome objections and here's how you ask for the close," and all that. You can learn that stuff anywhere, and those foundational things are important if you're going to be a "salesperson", but ours is all about the mindset of selling. How do you show up as your authentic self and not as the stereotypical salesperson?
Colin Coggins (00:57):
We love what we do. We started teaching a class because we wish this class was taught when we were in college.
Bob Simon (01:05):
Wow.
Colin Coggins (01:05):
Listen, you can't change your world or anybody else's world if you don't know how to move people.
Bob Simon (01:15):
Welcome to this episode of Bourbon of Proof, where we interview those who have been successful both law and life, and we do so over several spirits. Usually bourbon, usually whiskey. We have done some episodes with tequila or non-alcoholic, not our favorite episodes, right, Mauro?
Mauro Fiore (01:30):
Not our favorite. We like old-fashioned bourbon.
Bob Simon (01:33):
Yeah, and of course our esteemed co-host again, Mauro Fiore Jr coming from Hollywood, California.
Mauro Fiore (01:38):
Always here in good stead.
Bob Simon (01:42):
I feel like he just made that up. Is that like a John Wayne thing or something?
Mauro Fiore (01:44):
Yes.
Bob Simon (01:44):
It is?
Mauro Fiore (01:44):
Yes.
Bob Simon (01:46):
With his Foo Foo Fighter shirt on. But we're excited here today to have a Colin Coggins on with Garrett Brown, who wrote the Unsold Mindset, who teach at USC. They teach entrepreneurial students how to have that spirit, which a lot of lawyers all have. A lot of people don't know this, but Garrett and I went to law school together, so I'm going to do the first pour for Garrett because-
Garrett Brown (02:06):
Uh-oh.
Bob Simon (02:08):
I got you a Blade and Bow 22. You can only get this at the distillery. They only give one a day, you can get one a day.
Mauro Fiore (02:20):
Was I with you there when you got it?
Bob Simon (02:21):
You were with me when I got them. Remember, I ran to the front because I knew this and I had to go buy it as fast as I could because they get one a day.
Garrett Brown (02:25):
Beautiful.
Bob Simon (02:26):
They gave these little keys that probably unlock or-
Mauro Fiore (02:28):
Was that at the Stitzel-Weller in-
Bob Simon (02:29):
Yeah.
Mauro Fiore (02:30):
... In Louisville when we were there.
Bob Simon (02:31):
That's when, I believe so. He fell asleep a few times. But this is a Blade and Bow aged 22 years. But Garrett Brown, we've known each other for 22 years.
Garrett Brown (02:42):
Wow.
Bob Simon (02:43):
We started law school together in 2002.
Garrett Brown (02:45):
That's wild.
Bob Simon (02:46):
And now it's 2024, so this pour.
Mauro Fiore (02:47):
You guys went to Peckerdine? I mean, Pepperdine?
Bob Simon (02:51):
What? That's not even a Freudian slip, it's just something stupid. Here, pass that down.
Garrett Brown (02:56):
There you go. I like the symbolism there. 22 years, huh?
Bob Simon (03:01):
22 years. Can you believe that shit?
Garrett Brown (03:04):
It's weird.
Bob Simon (03:04):
Do you know how old we were in 2002?
Garrett Brown (03:08):
Children.
Bob Simon (03:09):
22. Are you older or you [inaudible 00:03:14]-
Garrett Brown (03:14):
No, I'm with you. We're the same age. Cheers.
Bob Simon (03:17):
Colin, Garrett, thanks for coming on.
Mauro Fiore (03:19):
Cheers. See I Cheers'd this time.
Garrett Brown (03:21):
Yeah, you remembered.
Mauro Fiore (03:27):
Anything 22 years is going to be smooth like that.
Bob Simon (03:29):
This is good. It's high proof too. So this is going to get you. So I mean, one of the things that you guys teach, essentially kids, we were kids whenever we were 22. We were
Garrett Brown (03:42):
Kids we're teaching kids that were as old as we were back then. Which is weird to think about.
Bob Simon (03:48):
So what is it? Because you were big. I mean, I actually one of my second date I ever went out with my wife was at his parents' house playing flip cup at almost Ventura. Where do they live?
Garrett Brown (03:58):
They live in Ventura.
Bob Simon (03:58):
Ventura. We were playing flip up and Frigging Ventura, and she was awesome. That's how I knew I would marry her. She dominated-
Garrett Brown (04:04):
She was good.
Bob Simon (04:05):
Two cups at a time. But yeah, the second date was at his house.
Garrett Brown (04:09):
At my parents' house.
Bob Simon (04:09):
Parents' house. Yep. Many dates at your house when we were in Westwood Brentwood together. But I mean, did you ever think, because you took the path, we'll start with you Garrett, where you were never into real litigation. You went right out to being an entrepreneur lawyer, being in a startup, exiting and now teaching.
Garrett Brown (04:27):
Right? Yeah. I didn't go to law school to be a lawyer, first of all. I went because I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grow up and I thought that delaying for three... We took some law classes as a business student at USC when I was an undergrad. It seemed interesting. It seemed like a lot of the people that I looked up to at the time, I wanted to be in the sports industry at the time, and a lot of the agents and executives and sports teams had a law degrees. So I was like, "Oh, that's a good way to delay the real world for three years. Figure out what the hell I want to be when I grow up. Let's go." And then I get there and I meet a bunch of people like you who are all type A assholes who are really "go get them."
(05:03):
And I'm like, "If this guy can go get a job and get paid that kind of money in the summer, I could definitely go get a job and get paid that kind of money in the summer." So one thing leads to another, and I end up finding myself practicing law when we graduate. And I was doing corporate transactional law and it sucked. I sucked at it, first of all. I just wasn't good at it because my heart wasn't in it. But for me that it was clear very early that that was not the path. You know me, I'm not a contentious person. And you got to get a little bit contentious from time to time as an attorney, I didn't like-
Bob Simon (05:35):
Yeah, you're like one the happy smiley guy.
Garrett Brown (05:37):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (05:37):
Garret's always happy, man. Ever since I've known you.
Garrett Brown (05:39):
Well-
Colin Coggins (05:40):
I got some stories.
Garrett Brown (05:41):
Yeah, he might tell you otherwise, but we spend a lot of time together. But in general, you are correct. And I sucked at it. It wasn't for me. But one of the things that I realized as I was working for a mid-sized firm in Century City was that all of the partners who were doing the best financially successfully, the ones that were worth looking up to were the ones who knew how to sell themselves. Not just in the courtroom, but the ones who were bringing in the new clients. And I would go on these kind of meetings with them and I would see them, and it became very clear to me early on that what they were doing was selling. Like, "Hey, this is why you should come work with us. This is why we're the right lawyers for you," and so on. And I was representing startups and it just looked a lot more fun on that side of the table for me. And so after about three years, I left and joined my first startup on the sales side. And it's been a crazy ride since.
Bob Simon (06:32):
But so did you work with the startup as their transactional lawyer-
Garrett Brown (06:36):
No, no. And we tell our students this all the time, one of the easiest ways to get a foot in the door in any industry, but especially at startup, is on the sales side because all these companies were raising money, they need to now sell their product. I had a little bit of instinct there and somebody saw something in me and hired me and gave me a shot at it and got lucky.
Bob Simon (06:58):
So, when you were in that sales position, law degree licensed lawyer, were you available 24/7 or were you just like there nine to five and no weekends? How does that work?
Garrett Brown (07:07):
I was always a 24/7 guy, or especially early on. I think that's what differentiated me. And by the way, let's be really clear. The fact that I had a background in law was a huge leg up for me in a startup because when the guy who hired me left and I had closed some deals, but more importantly I had negotiated them myself and I was drafting the contracts myself as a startup, that saves you a lot of money. I think that kind of distinguished me from a typical salesperson there. And those skills were what gave me the chance to ultimately lead sales at that organization. And then every organization I've been at since.
Bob Simon (07:47):
Right now, like Mauro has a lot of employees too. And I think, I don't know if with your teaching right now with that generation, I have people that are in sales with some of our companies that if it's after five o'clock, they're not picking up in sales and they're all commission based or I couldn't send something on a federal holiday even to Slack somebody about something. I couldn't even send an email because it was offensive. I said, "Well, you don't have to take care of it right now, but it's just like this is a sale that you can literally call somebody-"
Mauro Fiore (08:18):
You're intruding on their time. Bob, you know how these young fuckers work.
Garrett Brown (08:24):
I do have thoughts on this.
Bob Simon (08:26):
But I want to know, you guys are in this right now and you teach sales. We're all in sales. We're all in sales. But how does that-
Mauro Fiore (08:31):
The few places I ever worked, if I had and told my boss, this is my time, I would've fucking been spitting my teeth out.
Garrett Brown (08:40):
That element of it is very different. And I have some thoughts on this. Look, I see both sides of this. I think people, a lot of old guys like us will, "Oh, hard work is the way to go."
Bob Simon (08:52):
It's smart work. It's still smart work.
Garrett Brown (08:54):
Well, that's what I'm going to get at, which is I actually don't know that it's the hard work. It's the ability to figure out and get done. And usually, newsflash, that requires hard work. So that's why I think people kind of conflate the two things is like it does sometimes take just digging in being available 24 hours to get whatever the thing is that needs to get done, done. But if you can do it smart, then maybe you don't necessarily have to be available after 5:00.
Bob Simon (09:19):
If you can be available two hours a day, even on your vacation, answer emails, get stuff done, especially if you're on commission base and still be smart about it. I'm a big believer in quality of life and balance and those other things. But if you're going to own a company and you're going to do stuff that you have ownership interest in, you can't ever completely turn it off.
Garrett Brown (09:38):
I agree but definitely-
Bob Simon (09:39):
But [inaudible 00:09:40] Colin because the guy that's sitting in Indian style over here in the yoga bench.
Garrett Brown (09:44):
It's called cross-legged.
Bob Simon (09:46):
Cross-legged? I never thought I'd meet somebody more chill than Garret, but I feel like we're going to feel it.
Colin Coggins (09:53):
You give me whiskey as an appetizer, you're going to get [inaudible 00:09:56] until you get the other version. But hopefully that-
Bob Simon (09:59):
You know what, you guys are the first guests. This is almost our 40th or 45 episode that drank before you came on.
Mauro Fiore (10:04):
There you go.
Bob Simon (10:05):
Can you believe that?
Mauro Fiore (10:07):
[inaudible 00:10:07] outside?
Bob Simon (10:07):
Am I ashamed?
Mauro Fiore (10:08):
They were drinking outside.
Bob Simon (10:09):
No. You should be proud of it. But it's weird because I was like, "Yes, we'll give you a [inaudible 00:10:13] and I've been drinking all day, but we were like "Yes".
Colin Coggins (10:15):
Catching up. You were talking about the generation and we have a really interesting perspective. We've seen the generational shift.
Garrett Brown (10:24):
Yeah. We've taught our class for six years now.
Colin Coggins (10:26):
12 semesters.
Garrett Brown (10:27):
Yeah.
Colin Coggins (10:28):
So we have actually seen different generations respond differently to all sorts of circumstances. This generation, you're talking about this sense of entitlement. I was going to ask you, do you love what you do? But it was rhetorical. I know you love what you do. And those are the people that pick up after 5:00, right? So we teach a class that teaches people how to find the Sunday, what they love to do. And Ray Lewis has that quote, "They pay me for what I do Monday to Saturday, but Sundays are free." So it's like-
Bob Simon (11:00):
He also had that quote that I stabbed some guys at a bar and go-
Garrett Brown (11:03):
You're the first person-
Bob Simon (11:03):
He's a Steelers fan. Hold on, hold on. He's a Steelers guy.
Mauro Fiore (11:07):
It wasn't a stabbing-
Bob Simon (11:08):
I should have warned you not to bring up Ray Lewis in this conversation.
Mauro Fiore (11:13):
It was the shooting and he was just in the limo of it.
Bob Simon (11:13):
Look, I didn't even play for the Steelers. I still have nightmares number 52 playing [inaudible 00:11:17]-
Colin Coggins (11:18):
I don't the background or the context not advocating for Ray Lewis-
Bob Simon (11:21):
This is fantastic. Now the third aftertaste of this is really so good.
Garrett Brown (11:24):
It's so good.
Colin Coggins (11:25):
Let me confirm.
Bob Simon (11:26):
Confirm. I mean the dark age of this, because I mean aging something 22 years.
Colin Coggins (11:31):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (11:31):
Patience.
Garrett Brown (11:32):
Patience.
Colin Coggins (11:32):
I like peaty.
Bob Simon (11:33):
You like peaty?
Colin Coggins (11:34):
Yeah,
Bob Simon (11:35):
It's not peaty.
Colin Coggins (11:35):
What do you call it?
Bob Simon (11:36):
This is a straight bourbon. This is more of a corn based.
Colin Coggins (11:41):
What's that "tss"? What's that? What do you call that?
Bob Simon (11:42):
Oh, that's your acid reflux. You can take pills.
Garrett Brown (11:46):
Maybe we should trade seats because I don't know what's coming over here.
Colin Coggins (11:49):
Back to the generation. They are, one thing that's really good about having an entitled generation is they feel entitled to get paid for what they love doing. There's many generations where what they're good at and what they love are two different things. I mean, Garrett and I started teaching because what we were getting paid for wasn't necessarily just what we love doing. It just happened to be also what we were good at.
Bob Simon (12:11):
But I feel like both of you were teaching not out of need to teach, but you love to do it. I mean, you guys don't even need, you don't even get paid for it. You just love-
Colin Coggins (12:19):
Well, we get paid, but just, let's see.
Bob Simon (12:23):
It's like this. Don't you do this thing? Fight on.
Colin Coggins (12:24):
Yeah. I will say that we love what we do. We started teaching a class because we wish this class was taught when we were in college. And there was just like we were in the enterprise and there were all these new entrants into the workforce. They didn't know how to follow their dreams. They didn't know how to change their world. They couldn't change other people's world. They couldn't ask for raises. They couldn't communicate upwards or across. They didn't know how to move people. That was their whole thing. They weren't taught how to move people. And when the concept came up, it was like yucky. And then that was the origin. It was like, "Listen, you can't change your world or anybody else's world if you don't know how to move people." And it's not yucky. And engineers need to understand that selling their ideas or somebody else's ideas isn't a nasty smarmy thing. That's the origination of the course.
Bob Simon (13:12):
Dou you guys teach... Because one of the companies we have, we have a stark difference between the engineering, we have a lot of engineers that are building product and then the other side of things, which are community and the sales, right? And I feel like they're two completely different human bases that we're talking to. And I just found this in the last six months. It's just fascinating to me.
Garrett Brown (13:35):
But well, our class is called Sales Mindset for Entrepreneurs. We're not teaching the typical sales stuff. Like, "Oh, here's how you overcome objections and here's how you ask for the close," and all that. You can learn that stuff anywhere. And those foundational things are important for if you're going to be a quote-unquote "salesperson", but ours is all about the mindset of selling. How do you show up as your authentic self and not as the stereotypical salesperson? And we're talking to-
Bob Simon (14:02):
I feel like child lawyers should be taking these clients.
Mauro Fiore (14:03):
When I think of sales, I think of Alec Baldwin in-
Garrett Brown (14:06):
Right. And that's the problem. And that's why we wrote our book and that's why we teach our class.
Mauro Fiore (14:10):
That's what I think of sales.
Colin Coggins (14:12):
Let me ask you a question. When you think of the word salesperson, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Oh, I know. What comes to my mind?
Mauro Fiore (14:19):
First thing comes to mind. Sales car salesman.
Colin Coggins (14:21):
What were you going to say?
Bob Simon (14:22):
A guy in a briefcase, at a suit tie coming to your front door selling carpets or vacuums.
Colin Coggins (14:26):
Exactly. Yucky smarmy. Okay, now let's put that to the side-
Bob Simon (14:29):
That's of a salesman. I mean, that's what I think.
Colin Coggins (14:31):
Second question, who is the greatest salesperson?
Bob Simon (14:35):
Oh...
Mauro Fiore (14:36):
Donald Trump.
Colin Coggins (14:37):
The salesman you know. Who's the greatest salesperson you know.
Bob Simon (14:39):
He's a good salesman.
Mauro Fiore (14:40):
That I know? Okay. Yeah. I know some people that can sell.
Colin Coggins (14:42):
Who? Who's a great salesperson you know?
Mauro Fiore (14:43):
My friend David Danishcar. He's a great salesman.
Bob Simon (14:46):
He's a good salesman.
Colin Coggins (14:47):
You respect him?
Mauro Fiore (14:47):
Yeah.
Colin Coggins (14:48):
Admire him.?
Mauro Fiore (14:48):
Yeah.
Colin Coggins (14:49):
Revere?
Mauro Fiore (14:50):
Yeah.
Colin Coggins (14:50):
That's why we teach the class. There's this huge disconnect between who we think salespeople are and who the greatest salespeople on the planet. We ask that question to tens of thousands of people. Top two answers are Martin Luther King Jr and Steve Jobs. Yet everybody says yucky, smarmy, manipulative, pushy. And it's like, "No, the greatest salespeople on the planet are the antithesis of who you think they are. And they typically don't have sales in their title."
Garrett Brown (15:12):
No. And I think it's important to point out, I mean we're talking to a bunch of lawyers here ostensibly that are listening to this and watching this is talk about two stereotyped professions, salespeople and the stereotype that you're talking about and lawyers and the stereotype that you all know about. But I would wager-
Mauro Fiore (15:28):
Bob's a great salesman, but I mean, he's a lawyer, so I don't really consider him a salesman.
Bob Simon (15:33):
But I'm conscious of it because I had this discussion with these two when they were writing their book and they asked me some questions like, I'm actually proud to be in sales. I've been in sales since I was a kid because that's what you had to do to survive.
Garrett Brown (15:43):
And lawyers are selling all day every day, whether it's selling to a jury to try to get a verdict, whether it's selling to employees to join the firm. You're selling all day long in different ways.
Bob Simon (15:55):
You have to know your audience, we teach lawyers all the time and they get too lost in their mantra what they're talking about. It's like if you're selling to a jury, you have 12, nine sometimes folks that is your audience and you're selling them and better find out what they... Say you're going for a pitch. You have to research those people as much as you can to close them. And that's all that matters. But people lose sight of that.
Colin Coggins (16:18):
Your part in the book, in my opinion, one of the most magical parts in the book because it's on the vulnerability concept of why do certain people show pieces of themselves that most of us are trained to hide? And you gave this a really good example, and we heard this example from everyone at some point when we were interviewing them, that at one point or another you end up talking to yourself out loud in front of people. Remember you gave this story of you were in the courtroom, the judge asked you to repeat yourself. You looked up at the ceiling and you were like, "What did I just say?" And you look back at the judge, you look at the jury, you were like, I have no idea. The jury erupts laughing. That idea that people see themselves in you the minute they realize you're imperfect.
Garrett Brown (17:02):
But the important part of that story is you weren't doing that as a tactic to manipulate the jury or the judge. You just felt comfortable enough being yourself in front of that room to go, "Oh, shit, I don't remember what I was saying." And kind of fess to that because everybody in that a courtroom is kind of a little nervous and uptight and not sure what's going on. And that just kind of relieves a pressure because you were authentic enough to sell without selling, without using a tactic.
Bob Simon (17:29):
But if people will root for folks that are like them, and you walk into a courtroom and they're like, "This person's an uptight stuffy [inaudible 00:17:35]-"
Colin Coggins (17:35):
Exactly.
Bob Simon (17:35):
You can break that mold. Now, I do in jury selections, I'm conscious of it. Find ways to make people laugh or be engaging or say stuff. It's a little different. But I remember that moment when I first did that, when jury laughed. It was a litmus test for me. Now I'm like, oh, I got them.
Garrett Brown (17:49):
Well, you should know, we bring it up many keynotes throughout. I mean, we do a lot of keynotes every year, and we talk about you and that story as the example in that.
Bob Simon (17:57):
Me and Ray Lewis apparently.
Garrett Brown (17:59):
You're both there.
Bob Simon (17:59):
Who else did you guys interview? You guys interviewed a lot folks.
Colin Coggins (18:01):
I was going to say the advice that you gave us was the same advice that Snoop Dogg gave us-
Bob Simon (18:05):
Really?
Colin Coggins (18:05):
... of, What would you tell people as the secret sauce of being a great seller? And it had something to do with being the best version of yourself.
Garrett Brown (18:12):
He's said, "Master doing you."
Colin Coggins (18:13):
That's what Snoop said. They were like, "Hey, why does everyone keep saying you're a great salesperson?" He was like, "Master doing you. Everything else will work itself out." And it is weird as-
Bob Simon (18:22):
He ran a 200 meter the other day for no reason. Did you see this?
Colin Coggins (18:25):
[inaudible 00:18:25], horrible, it was an unattractive... I love Snoop. Snoop knows I love him.
Mauro Fiore (18:29):
Can't believe he ran that far as much weed as he smokes.
Colin Coggins (18:33):
Can I tell you that's the imperfection you're talking about. The sad truth is people like buying from people like-
Bob Simon (18:38):
We need to do another pour, I'm thirsty, Mauro, over here.
Colin Coggins (18:41):
People like like the people-
Mauro Fiore (18:41):
This was my second pour.
Bob Simon (18:44):
Motherfucker, that's been on my shelf for six years. You're drinking it all?
Mauro Fiore (18:47):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (18:48):
Okay, we'll take another one of these.
Garrett Brown (18:49):
Yeah, we're doubling it up.
Bob Simon (18:50):
I'll do another one of these before we get to the Wiseman.
Colin Coggins (18:51):
Oh, I thought you wanted to get-
Garrett Brown (18:52):
Only one a day, that feels like-
Colin Coggins (18:55):
I thought you wanted a little more of this? I haven't known them for 22 years.
Bob Simon (18:58):
We have a long day Mauro, but you can heavy hand these guys.
Colin Coggins (19:01):
I was saying that people like buying from people like themselves, and it is a sad truth, but it is the truth. The good news is that the common denominator between everyone is imperfection.
Bob Simon (19:12):
Okay. So I do a lot of artificial intelligence things and I talk about, I say the one thing artificial intelligence cannot replicate is human imperfection. And that's what makes us beautiful things.
Colin Coggins (19:25):
It's what we see-
Bob Simon (19:26):
Exactly. It's a commonality.
Colin Coggins (19:27):
... ourselves in other people.
Garrett Brown (19:28):
And feel.
Bob Simon (19:28):
We don't love things that are perfect. You hate things that are perfect.
Colin Coggins (19:30):
You can have a half-Black, half-white Jewish kid in LA. How do I catch a vibe with a 72-year-old woman in Utah who's Mormon? I don't know what I have in common with her, but the minute that I-
Bob Simon (19:42):
You both are great kissers obviously. This guy was talking earlier about he felt-
Colin Coggins (19:47):
When I was engaged to my fiance over 10 years ago, I would show up to meetings late because we would do wedding planning a lot and I'd show up to meetings, work meetings, and I'd be like, "Hey, I'm really sorry that I was late. I have this fiance, she's a really big wedding planner. We were talking about Bougainvilleas and roses and it doesn't matter. I'm just saying I'm sorry." And almost every time I would get someone on the other end of this meeting like, "Colin, don't worry about it. It's going to be way easier on your second marriage."
Bob Simon (20:16):
Wait-
Colin Coggins (20:17):
That's a quote!
Garrett Brown (20:18):
Real quote.
Bob Simon (20:18):
But is your fiance in the story of the 72-year-old woman from Utah?
Colin Coggins (20:22):
No. No. It's completely different stories.
Bob Simon (20:23):
My imagery in my head was completely different.
Colin Coggins (20:26):
No, this is a story-
Garrett Brown (20:26):
Different women. Okay.
Colin Coggins (20:27):
This is a story about random people seeing themselves in me. I'm not losing a deal when someone's giving me their marital history in the first 20 seconds.
Bob Simon (20:34):
So because you guys are both smiley dudes. I'm a smiley guy. Do you think that translates? Because I feel like I am attracted to folks that are happy and smiling all the time. I trust that factor. Because you guys study this, I just want to know, is that one of the things?
Garrett Brown (20:47):
It's an interesting question and it's like what comes first? The-
Bob Simon (20:52):
Commonality.
Garrett Brown (20:53):
... The commonality? Or does that lead to the happiness? I don't know. I've never thought about that.
Colin Coggins (20:59):
[inaudible 00:20:59], I mean the neuro-linguistic program was a thing.
Bob Simon (21:02):
[inaudible 00:21:04].
Colin Coggins (21:04):
It's a thing that salespeople-
Garrett Brown (21:05):
It was.
Colin Coggins (21:06):
... probably still do. And it was a thing for a while. It was a trend. If you cross your legs,-
Bob Simon (21:11):
Mirror it.
Colin Coggins (21:11):
... I cross my legs. You mirror. We were like-
Garrett Brown (21:13):
Which is the most bullshit-
Colin Coggins (21:16):
Could we just write a book where we could show people the reason why people were leaning in was because they were actually engaged and you didn't need to lean in because you were-
Bob Simon (21:24):
There's a lot of trawlers that sell a lot of. And one of this is these things. You're the jurors that do this, and I think it's the fakest shit-
Garrett Brown (21:30):
So, here's why it's fake.
Bob Simon (21:31):
You've heard a lot of this too.
Mauro Fiore (21:32):
Well, yeah. I mean, not to say it's, but I think Rex Parris is into a lot of that. How he walks into the courtroom or what kind of bag you carry, carry a alligator Gucci bag. Are you going to bring in a Jansport backpack in front of the jury?
Bob Simon (21:50):
I'm a backpack guy because it's more comfortable for me.
Garrett Brown (21:53):
I have a couple of thoughts on this, but one of the things, we believe that the origin of this, let's just stick with mirroring for a second because it sounds like lawyers are taught this as well. Probably at some point somebody studied some great conversation, some great trial lawyer who was in there and they, "Oh, that guy's leaning forward when the other person's leaning forward. So that must be what you do." But the reality is that person was so engaged authentically in the conversation, in the thing that they were saying and the thing that they were doing, that they were naturally leaning in. And there's science behind this that you do this naturally. So where we cringe a little bit on it is when people weaponize it and they're like, "Oh, we're going to..." How can you be having a good conversation? How can you be doing your best work in front of a jury if you're thinking about your legs crossed or what you're carrying?
Bob Simon (22:36):
I'm engaged right now, now, and I'm sitting comfortably back with my legs crossed and-
Garrett Brown (22:41):
Right, but you're not doing that on purpose. You know what I mean? So I think-
Bob Simon (22:45):
No, look, he's mirroring me. He's not. Look, got him!
Garrett Brown (22:47):
Right.
Bob Simon (22:47):
Got him.
Garrett Brown (22:49):
But if you're thinking about it, you're obviously not-
Colin Coggins (22:51):
That's the thing with the smile, right? You're like, does this smile work? It's like if you're smiling, then if I'm smiling, I think you're going to smile. I'll smile at a mile away.
Garrett Brown (23:00):
But the other thing I just want to point out is that a lot of selling, and I'm sure a lot of what people teach trial lawyers as well is based in human psychology. And there is nothing wrong with using humans in when you genuinely believe that it's going to help the other person understand something that's best for them or legitimately good for your client. The problem that we have with it is when people weaponize it and when they're like, "Oh, I'm going to manipulate because I do this-"
Bob Simon (23:26):
It can't be absolute. There's one called Emotion track, and they use artificial intelligence to see how people use facial mannerisms based off of how a jury's responding. So we will do our opening or closing in front of a wide array of folks and to see how their faces move and stuff. There's science or whatever they claim behind it, but I would say it's like a tool that we use, but it's not an absolute. Like they said this word and they like this word, but I think it's... Can we do the Wiseman or the what do we have here? Yeah, the Wiseman pour.
Mauro Fiore (23:57):
We have a-
Bob Simon (23:58):
Talk about it.
Mauro Fiore (24:03):
Kentucky straight rye whiskey. Another rye. But Bob likes rye, so he always brings-
Bob Simon (24:07):
But this one's a bourbon. That's a rye. This is a bourbon.
Mauro Fiore (24:08):
And this is called the Wiseman. So what is on here? There's a bunch of stuff on here, like a bunch-
Bob Simon (24:19):
He can't read.
Mauro Fiore (24:19):
A bunch of symbols.
Garrett Brown (24:20):
Some thing. The irony of the four of us drinking a Wiseman whiskey is not lost on me at all.
Mauro Fiore (24:26):
[inaudible 00:24:26].
Bob Simon (24:26):
The reason I selected the Wiseman is there's a difference between intelligence and being wise, right? Intelligence is, you can be book smart, you can be taught like quantum physics, but if you can't communicate it, if you're not wise in what you do... And I think the wisest people that are in our industries are people that understand sales and understand how to talk to human being be vulnerable. So that's why I picked the Wiseman and Garrett, one thing you told me, and we were sitting in your, we both had apartments back in the day in West LA when we were trying to figure out. You said to me, you don't even know this is coming. Garret says, "You know what? You know how I know I made in my life, I'm going to get a fucking forearm tattoo and I'm going to be like, 'Fuck you' to everybody else, 'I have a forearm tattoo. I don't care what anybody else says.'"
Garrett Brown (25:15):
I still say that.
Bob Simon (25:16):
Do you have a forearm tattoo right now because I didn't-
Garrett Brown (25:19):
So I do not have a forearm tattoo.
Bob Simon (25:21):
Sad.
Garrett Brown (25:23):
I would have a forearm tattoo if I was passionate enough about something to put it on my forearm, but it was always like, I just-
Bob Simon (25:30):
You remember it now?
Garrett Brown (25:30):
Yeah. Oh no. I mean, I've stuck with this through the years. I wanted it because this is where I play guitar and I wanted people to be able to see-
Bob Simon (25:37):
Yeah, I remember, we had the conversation... You brought the guitar. We had this discussion.
Garrett Brown (25:40):
Discussion. No, I'm not there, but I have re-picked up the guitar just in the last few months. So maybe the forearm tattoo is coming one of these days.
Colin Coggins (25:47):
I'd just like to be clear. He said he wasn't passionate about something. Now I have an Unsold Mindset tattoo.
Garrett Brown (26:00):
He does.
Colin Coggins (26:00):
So I would just like to be clear-
Garrett Brown (26:00):
That's the name of our book, by the way, the Unsold-
Colin Coggins (26:00):
You said you didn't have something you were passionate about, yet I have an Unsold Mindset tattoo.
Bob Simon (26:01):
I mean, you can have-
Garrett Brown (26:01):
That's a world exclusive, by the way. He never tells anybody, but he does have a-
Colin Coggins (26:05):
I do.
Bob Simon (26:06):
Do you have it on the inside bicep?
Colin Coggins (26:08):
I do.
Bob Simon (26:08):
That's a very sensitive part of your body to have a tattoo.
Colin Coggins (26:11):
No one sees it unless you go to Pilates with me.
Bob Simon (26:13):
Well, I mean Garrett has this... You still have the tattoo in the small of your back, or you-
Garrett Brown (26:16):
Oh, absolutely. Yes, absolutely.
Colin Coggins (26:20):
I can confirm that.
Mauro Fiore (26:20):
That Bullseye?
Bob Simon (26:21):
No, no. It actually says Pepperdine.
Colin Coggins (26:23):
With wings.
Bob Simon (26:24):
With the waves.
Garrett Brown (26:24):
No-
Bob Simon (26:25):
I actually have waves in one of my tattoos.
Garrett Brown (26:26):
Still no tattoos, but someday.
Bob Simon (26:29):
One of these days you'll be passionate about something.
Garrett Brown (26:31):
Something.
Colin Coggins (26:32):
Jesus.
Mauro Fiore (26:32):
Kentucky Owl's pretty good. It's fairly spicy. Very spicy. Yeah. Very spicy.
Garrett Brown (26:39):
Oh, this is Fantastic.
Bob Simon (26:41):
But I'm a Mariah guy-
Garrett Brown (26:43):
This should be second after that one.
Bob Simon (26:45):
Yeah, this is like, I mean, smooth age. This has a bite to it. So I like spice. So I like...
Garrett Brown (26:51):
This is going to put hair on my chest waiting 44 years, but I might get my first one.
Colin Coggins (26:57):
I could confirm that too.
Bob Simon (27:00):
But now, six years, 12 semesters you've seen at USC, and these are some gifted kids that are coming through here, right?
Garrett Brown (27:06):
Great kids.
Bob Simon (27:06):
And this is one I wish they taught us this in law school. I've never taken a business class. I wish we had an entrepreneurial class. We just figured shit out when we started our firm we're just like-
Mauro Fiore (27:16):
Well, it's either figured out or starve to death. So it's one another. So I figured it out.
Bob Simon (27:21):
We almost starved to death many times.
Mauro Fiore (27:22):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (27:23):
But what are some advice you can give lawyers if they're looking to want to be better business folks or if they want to have better coaches? Because a lot of researching for this knowledge all the time, what can they be doing?
Colin Coggins (27:36):
Start by acknowledging that the greatest salespeople on the planet are not the most articulate. They're not the most gregarious, they're not the most extroverted, they're not the most self-confident, but they are the most self-aware people in the room. They know they said some shit. It didn't land. They get to course-correct. Aware of it. They can talk to someone, realize that person does not think that they're listening. They think they're waiting to speak. They're able to course-correct. You get this sense of optimism from some of these people. They're not naive. They just talk to people as if they don't need something from them. How would you treat someone if they were already your client? So it's a very interesting dynamic when you're trying to teach someone how to be bad at sales because nobody wants some great salesperson in front of them. They want a great human in front of them.
Mauro Fiore (28:24):
I like that. I never took a business class or anything. I read one sales book in my life. It was called The Culture Code. You ever read this book?
Colin Coggins (28:35):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (28:35):
Yeah.
Mauro Fiore (28:36):
It's a pretty amazing book about how sales and how the ones that they talk about in there are, I think it's the Maxwell House or the Folgers coffee commercial that was on TV that the whole thing was about smelling the coffee and how that has an effect on people, things like that. And it's interesting, but it's kind of like a psychological book on how the salespeople that came up with these, there's four or five big campaigns. One of them, like the Michelin Tires, where it says "So much is riding on your tires," and they have the kid inside the tire that is supposed to be one that really hit with people because it makes people think of their family. And you see a kid sitting on top of a tire really hits hard home. So it talked about these big campaigns that hit hard home with people and it just turned to me. It just seemed like psychology.
Garrett Brown (29:29):
Yeah, well-
Bob Simon (29:29):
It was one movie, sorry to cut you off-
Garrett Brown (29:31):
No worries it.
Bob Simon (29:33):
... with Dudley Moore in it and was he ended up in the psychiatric ward. Have you ever seen this movie?
Garrett Brown (29:36):
Dude, it sounds so familiar.
Bob Simon (29:38):
It'll start to jog your memory. So they started, he was an ad guy and he went crazy. They put him in a psych ward. So they started outsourcing all the ads to him in the psych ward, and all the people in the crazy home were coming up with the ads that were the best ads ever. I'll never forget, there was one ad, they were doing one for this movie and it was called The Freak, and it was just like "The freak, it'll fuck you up for life." It was amazing. And they were cheering, but the crazy people came out with the best fucking titles ever.
Garrett Brown (30:04):
Well, first of all,-
Bob Simon (30:06):
I'll remember what it's called.
Garrett Brown (30:06):
You're going to read a second sales book real soon, the Unsold Mindset. Really good book. I highly recommend it. But no, I think what, as you were saying that it reminded me of something that we talk about often, which is that the students who come into our class, the companies that bring us in to do keynotes and the audiences there, they bring us in sometimes thinking that they're getting professional development content. They think they're going to learn how to sell and learn tactics by the time they leave, they realize that it's really personal development. It's not about how do I learn XY, Z formula for selling. It's about how do I get myself in the mindset so that I'm showing up as the best version of myself so that I'm excited to talk to this person and learn about what their problem is so that I'm excited to ask them questions that they've never been asked before so that I am, how do I show up as the version of me that's like, "Oh, I cannot wait to talk to you," as opposed to, "Oh, call number 30 today, I got to pick up the phone and make this call."There's a real different tone and a real different result in the conversation depending on which mindset you go into that call for.
Colin Coggins (31:12):
Yeah, that's fascinating. Even the questions that salespeople ask. They say great salespeople are remembered for the questions they ask, not the statements that they make. But that's not because they ask leading questions. That's because they care about answers that most people don't.
(31:29):
So it's like, "What's the advice you give to great salespeople, people?" Why would you want to know the answer to questions that most people don't? Well, you have a unique perspective. You have a unique curiosity. People love curious people, but you would never attach curiosity to an adjective of a salesperson except they are so imagine asking him a question that he's never heard before. He'll ideate for the first time in real time on that answer no matter what that answer is. That's his answer. He owns it. He has a sense of agency. We extract value when we ask questions. Show me, give me, tell me. You literally asking-
Bob Simon (32:03):
So here's the question. We're going to end in this series of questions and these are the oddball questions, right? So Colin, I'm going to ask you first, sell me your favorite cereal without saying what it is. Yours is going to be different. So don't-
Garrett Brown (32:17):
Even, oh darn. Because I am a hardcore Golden Grahams are the best cereal of all time guy and-
Bob Simon (32:23):
I think it's so soggy.
Garrett Brown (32:24):
... I will fight you to the death because that is the only correct answer.
Mauro Fiore (32:28):
Wit the cinnamon and sugar on them, right?
Garrett Brown (32:29):
No, dude. Just straight up Golden Grahams with whole milk.
Bob Simon (32:35):
He puts cinnamon sugar on them. I know what you're-
Colin Coggins (32:35):
You don't want to guess it. You just want me to-
Bob Simon (32:35):
No, we want to guess it. You can't say what it is, but we have to try to guess what you're-
Colin Coggins (32:39):
Okay, so I'm not selling one. I'm just giving you examples so you can-
Bob Simon (32:42):
Correct or you could sell whatever it is.
Garrett Brown (32:43):
Sell it.
Colin Coggins (32:45):
Okay, well, if I wasn't selling it, but I just wanted you to guess it.
Bob Simon (32:47):
Yeah, yeah, sure. Let's do that.
Colin Coggins (32:48):
I would just go, "Gr-r-reat!"
Mauro Fiore (32:48):
Frosted Flakes.
Colin Coggins (32:48):
There you go.
Bob Simon (32:53):
That's your favorite?
Garrett Brown (32:53):
That's a horrible answer.
Colin Coggins (32:55):
Well, the reality's, I don't-
Garrett Brown (32:55):
I'm looking at you in a only way now.
Colin Coggins (32:58):
... eat cereal. I'm an acai bowl guy, you know what I mean? Obviously.
Bob Simon (33:00):
You're telling me the cross-legged guy eats acai bowls. Next you're going to tell me the guy wearing a Foo Fighters shirt likes [inaudible 00:33:06].
Mauro Fiore (33:05):
And wears a Kenzo tiger hat.
Colin Coggins (33:08):
This is a Human Made but close.
Bob Simon (33:10):
Wait, what is this?
Colin Coggins (33:11):
Human Made?
Bob Simon (33:12):
What is that?
Colin Coggins (33:13):
It's in the family. This is a Pharrell brand. It's a Japanese brand. And he said Kenzo, which is a Japanese brand. And I love that you thought that and you know that.
Mauro Fiore (33:22):
It looks like the Kenzo tiger to me.
Colin Coggins (33:23):
Yeah, it's Human Made but same Nigel-
Bob Simon (33:26):
How do you know this stuff? He just knows stupid shit. I could see-
Colin Coggins (33:28):
He's swaggy.
Bob Simon (33:28):
... now that I see-
Mauro Fiore (33:29):
Yeah.
Garrett Brown (33:30):
We're derailed. This is becoming the worst episode you've ever-
Colin Coggins (33:33):
Asked someone who does eat cereal to sell cereal? I had to hit you with the tiger grr.
Bob Simon (33:37):
Now let's ask Garrett to-
Garrett Brown (33:41):
Oh God. I'm going to pass anyway.
Colin Coggins (33:44):
Sell the hair product.
Bob Simon (33:45):
No, no, no. This was probably 2000. Sell Lauren, his wife, on him in the year 2000.
Garrett Brown (33:54):
I did sell her.
Bob Simon (33:55):
I know. That's why I want to hear what your closing pitch was, because she's way out of your league.
Garrett Brown (33:59):
Yes.
Bob Simon (34:00):
We all know.
Garrett Brown (34:00):
Yeah, she's-
Bob Simon (34:01):
We were in law school and she came to campus where they were like, "What?" So how did you do it?
Garrett Brown (34:06):
So how did I do it? Well, that's a long time ago. So I honestly don't remember. She did have a boyfriend at the time when we first started chatting.
Bob Simon (34:17):
Was it Matt Liner?
Garrett Brown (34:18):
No, it wasn't Matt Liner. I did know his girlfriend at the time. His girlfriend at the time was great too.
Bob Simon (34:24):
They were at the same time.
Garrett Brown (34:27):
No, I was more Carson Palmer here.
Bob Simon (34:29):
Oh really?
Garrett Brown (34:29):
But how did I sell her? We were in a class together. We did a group project together, and somehow I found a way to schedule a group project meeting at a time when the other two group members just couldn't quite make it.
Bob Simon (34:45):
There you go.
Garrett Brown (34:47):
One-on-one conversation, probably asked some impactful questions without realizing they were impactful questions. And here we are 24 years later, we will be married 18 years next month.
Bob Simon (35:01):
Wow.
Garrett Brown (35:03):
And still doing our thing.
Bob Simon (35:05):
18 years?
Mauro Fiore (35:07):
That's a high-
Colin Coggins (35:08):
[inaudible 00:35:08] fire fly.
Bob Simon (35:08):
18 years, 2 kids.
Garrett Brown (35:09):
Yeah, two kids.
Bob Simon (35:11):
But I feel like everybody that's on this episode are all salesmen, all salespersons. We all were above our pay grade for our spouses especially. I mean, have you seen Mauro's wife? This guy can hardly even get-
Garrett Brown (35:26):
I haven't. Tell us more.
Mauro Fiore (35:28):
What can I say, man? I'm a handsome man.
Bob Simon (35:30):
He also pretended to... Were you Israeli when you-
Mauro Fiore (35:34):
No, I pretended I was Persian.
Bob Simon (35:35):
You pretended you was Persian?
Mauro Fiore (35:36):
Yeah, because-
Bob Simon (35:38):
That was his sale.
Mauro Fiore (35:39):
... she's Latina.
Bob Simon (35:40):
He knew she liked Persians. So he-
Mauro Fiore (35:40):
She's Latina. So I know that the Latinas in LA like Persians. So I told her her name was Reza. It worked.
Garrett Brown (35:49):
What happened when she found out your real name?
Mauro Fiore (35:50):
She wasn't happy about it.
Garrett Brown (35:52):
How long did that take to recover from?
Mauro Fiore (35:54):
Like a month.
Garrett Brown (35:54):
Okay.
Mauro Fiore (35:55):
No, I pretended I was Reza for a month.
Garrett Brown (35:58):
Yeah.
Mauro Fiore (35:59):
Reza Ajiji.
Garrett Brown (35:59):
Of course.
Colin Coggins (36:01):
Is that a Persian last name?
Mauro Fiore (36:03):
Muslim-Persian.
Colin Coggins (36:04):
Oh.
Mauro Fiore (36:05):
I was from Orange County.
Bob Simon (36:08):
He must have done a deep dive into her to-
Mauro Fiore (36:10):
Well, I have revealed on this show my Jewish Persian name is Moshe Cohn. That's when I'm a Jewish Persian. When I'm Muslim, I'm Reza Ajiji from Newport Beach.
Bob Simon (36:21):
And when you're playing the casinos in Eastern Europe, what's your what?
Mauro Fiore (36:25):
Oh, My name is Rratz Melbourne.
Bob Simon (36:28):
Rratz Melbourne.
Mauro Fiore (36:29):
Rratz Melbourne is name.
Garrett Brown (36:30):
We need some aliases. We don't have aliases.
Bob Simon (36:33):
No you don't. [inaudible 00:36:33]
Mauro Fiore (36:33):
Me and Bob are going Spain tomorrow and I'm going to be Rratz Melbourne the whole time we're there.
Garrett Brown (36:39):
It's like alter ego effect though. He walks into the casino and he's like [inaudible 00:36:43].
Mauro Fiore (36:42):
Rratz with two R's. Two R's at the beginning. Rratz Melbourne
Bob Simon (36:44):
At the beginning. Two R's at the beginning, R roll. All right, so Garrett and Colin. We've had several, well, you guys had two pours of one. One or the other and you had one offset. We ask everybody at the end, what's your bourbon of proof? What's the one that spoke to you, the spirit that you liked, the ones that you had and why?
Garrett Brown (37:03):
I thought the Blade and Bow was delicious, dangerously so, really smooth and you could easily have three or four of those and not realize what's going on. That was a delight and thank you for sharing. And the 22 symbolism was special too, so thank you for thinking of that.
Bob Simon (37:17):
22, 22.
Colin Coggins (37:17):
My birthday's the 22nd as well.
Bob Simon (37:19):
You are the 22nd?
Garrett Brown (37:20):
There we go.
Bob Simon (37:20):
Mauro just turned 50 a couple weeks ago.
Colin Coggins (37:22):
May 22nd.
Bob Simon (37:22):
Mazel tov.
Garrett Brown (37:23):
Congrats, man.
Mauro Fiore (37:23):
Thank you.
Bob Simon (37:24):
You don't look a day over 49 and a half.
Mauro Fiore (37:26):
Oh, thank you. Well, it's all the clean living.
Garrett Brown (37:31):
Yes sir. Colin, how about you my friend?
Colin Coggins (37:34):
Same. [inaudible 00:37:35] perfect.
Bob Simon (37:37):
That was good. The double symbolism. And also we were in the same fantasy league for a long time and-
Garrett Brown (37:43):
I took a lot of your money over those day.
Bob Simon (37:44):
Took a lot of my money.
Garrett Brown (37:46):
Well, my partner at the time, Greg Altman, shout out to Greg. He probably took most of your money.
Mauro Fiore (37:51):
I was in a fantasy league with Bob. Football fantasy-
Bob Simon (37:53):
He actually got kicked out with some similar people. He's got kicked out of the league.
Mauro Fiore (37:56):
They weren't-
Bob Simon (37:56):
Alex Lafazia knows Marfiori kicked him out of a league.
Colin Coggins (37:59):
Is that true?
Mauro Fiore (38:00):
I was just a little bit too controversial for the league.
Garrett Brown (38:02):
Okay, I understand.
Mauro Fiore (38:03):
Guys just they didn't really get my humor.
Colin Coggins (38:07):
Which alias were you playing as?
Mauro Fiore (38:08):
I was Mauro, but let's just say at the end of the league, when I left, I wished several people get... I wished them that they would get cancer.
Colin Coggins (38:19):
Ah.
Garrett Brown (38:19):
That's pretty rough.
Colin Coggins (38:20):
On that note, I've won four fantasy football championships.
Mauro Fiore (38:22):
[inaudible 00:38:25].
Garrett Brown (38:26):
If any of his friends are listening, he had to throw that in-
Colin Coggins (38:28):
Yeah. Yeah.
Bob Simon (38:30):
No, he actually-
Colin Coggins (38:31):
He didn't mean it.
Bob Simon (38:32):
... he did wish them cancer.
Garrett Brown (38:35):
Okay.
Colin Coggins (38:35):
But you didn't mean it.
Mauro Fiore (38:36):
No, I didn't mean it.
Colin Coggins (38:36):
Right.
Bob Simon (38:37):
Right.
Garrett Brown (38:37):
Right.
Bob Simon (38:37):
Some people took it very seriously.
Mauro Fiore (38:40):
It took my team and it was a legacy team where you keep your players. So they gave my team to some asshole and he's won four championships because I drafted Christian McCaffrey.
Bob Simon (38:50):
It's true. They won. He won again this year.
Mauro Fiore (38:51):
Yeah. So they took my team, gave it to someone else, and that guy's won a bunch of titles. Meanwhile, they kicked me out after one season.
Bob Simon (38:58):
Well, it was because you wished people cancer. Not a good thing to do.
Mauro Fiore (39:02):
Yes, well, I wish I could say I regret it.
Colin Coggins (39:07):
But you did say you didn't mean it. He won't say that either.
Mauro Fiore (39:13):
I might not.
Bob Simon (39:15):
Look, he proposed a trade to somebody that was wholly unfair and things went off the rails. It was embarrassing for you, but he was not happy about it. So Garrett, Colin, thank you for coming to this episode of Bourbon of Proof. If you want to reach out to these guys, look up the Unsold Mindset. It's an Amazon bestseller. I have at least two copies.
Garrett Brown (39:35):
Amazon bestseller? Hold on. It is a Wall Street Journal bestseller.
Bob Simon (39:38):
Well, but I buy on Amazon. I don't even-
Colin Coggins (39:40):
It's also an Amazon bestseller, but it is also a Wall Street-
Bob Simon (39:43):
But you can't buy off Wall Street. We just go to Amazon and buy it.
Garrett Brown (39:45):
No, but have a little respect. We wrote a bestselling book, dude.
Mauro Fiore (39:49):
It's in a different echelon here.
Colin Coggins (39:51):
What it means is that a lot of people didn't-
Mauro Fiore (39:53):
Amazon bestseller's like-
Garrett Brown (39:56):
If everybody in this room bought our book, we would be an Amazon bestseller.
Colin Coggins (40:00):
We respect all Amazon bestsellers. We think that it's an amazing feat.
Garrett Brown (40:04):
But...
Colin Coggins (40:07):
But-
Garrett Brown (40:08):
Is that how it's measured, I don't even know?
Colin Coggins (40:09):
Wall Street Journal bestseller is a big deal.
Garrett Brown (40:11):
And Wall Street Journal bestseller takes all bookstores across the world, a certain-
Bob Simon (40:15):
I didn't mean to offend you guys, like "Fuck you" guys-
Garrett Brown (40:17):
We're not offended. I'm just teasing you. Anyway, it's both kinds of bestseller and thank you for saying so.
Colin Coggins (40:23):
Yes.
Garrett Brown (40:24):
Well, cheers to the end of the episode.
Bob Simon (40:25):
Nice to see you, man.
Garrett Brown (40:26):
Yeah.
Colin Coggins (40:26):
[inaudible 00:40:27], cheers.
Bob Simon (40:26):
Can't reach Mauro.
Mauro Fiore (40:30):
And I hope that none of you get cancer.
Garrett Brown (40:33):
The feeling is mutual, Mauro, thank you.
Bob Simon (40:35):
Now that he's in your heart...
Colin Coggins (40:37):
[inaudible 00:40:37] cancer.
