Bob Simon (00:00):
... I mean, just share for our listeners, how did you get that business acumen, and how are you implementing that?
Alexander Shunnarah (00:05):
Anything you see, feel, touch, encounter, the law is somewhat intertwined in that. And I said, "Everything that's intertwined. There's rules on how we bury people, buildings. Everything's the law." So I was like, "If the law is in everything, I want to get a law degree." And that's really what led me into going to law school.
(00:31):
Well, like I said, I started in 2001, and to be honest, for two years it was just me by myself, I didn't even have an assistant. My goal every day was to wake up and I said, "I'm going to get one case every day, I'm going to send one demand out every day, and I'm going to settle one case every day." I can't tell you how many waffle houses I was in, or huddle houses at 2:00 A.M. trying to get somebody signed up. That's the kind of stuff I think I had to do to get there.
Bob Simon (01:14):
Welcome to this episode of Bourbon of Proof, where we interview the most successful people in the legal space. We do so over a series of very high proof, usually alcohol. And today we're like... probably one of the most storied lawyers across especially the Southeast, if not the nation. But, Alexanderander Shunnarah, thank you for coming onto the show.
Mauro Fiore (01:32):
The Godfather.
Bob Simon (01:33):
The Godfather, man.
Alexander Shunnarah (01:34):
Thank you, Bob. Thank you [inaudible 00:01:35].
Mauro Fiore (01:36):
Thank you, sir.
Alexander Shunnarah (01:37):
Thank y'all for having me.
Bob Simon (01:38):
If you're watching in the Southeast, you've seen this face on every single billboard for the better part of the past two decades, right?
Alexander Shunnarah (01:44):
We've got a few of them.
Bob Simon (01:45):
You've got a few. I could not not see your face as we drove through Birmingham today. And I actually wore the shirt for you, this is War damn whiskey.
Mauro Fiore (01:54):
How do you know he's an Auburn fan? Maybe he's an Alabama fan.
Bob Simon (01:56):
I know he's an Auburn fan. I know he's an Auburn fan.
Alexander Shunnarah (02:00):
I'm politically correct. I pull for both teams, but I do love... There's a special place for Auburn.
Bob Simon (02:06):
We were in LA a few months ago. He very dedicated and watched the Auburn game as we sipped very... We were at Randy Wilson's basement, Manhattan Beach, and he's-
Mauro Fiore (02:15):
He's been to Randy's house?
Bob Simon (02:16):
And he's been to Randy's house.
Mauro Fiore (02:16):
Randy's got a nice house.
Alexander Shunnarah (02:17):
And I'll tell you what really pushed me in that direction was when I was a young man, when we got Bo Jackson, and it broke the Alabama game nine-winning streak. Because I grew up in... My father didn't pay attention to sports, so it wasn't like you were raised to choose one team for the other. And then I go against the grain. All my cousins were huge Alabama fans because... And I was like, "Okay. We got Bo Jackson. I'm going against what you guys like. I'm going in the other direction." And that's how the lovefest started.
Bob Simon (02:55):
Oh, I love it. So we're going to start. This is Mauro's select for you, and he chose Whiskey Row, and a lot has to do with how you got started and work with your daddy. So Mauro, why don't you introduce this bottle, where it's from, and why you picked it for Alexander?
Mauro Fiore (03:12):
This is called the Whiskey Row. This is from Louisville. I thought of Alexander immediately when I saw the label because it looks like a dollar bill because when I think about Alexander, I was thinking about cold hard cash. So this is a 1880s straight corn whiskey from Louisville. It's a traditional and local brand, just like he's a local man, a traditional-
Bob Simon (03:37):
So you cannot get this usually outside of Kentucky, which is why I'm shocked that we went to LeNell's here in Birmingham and they had this bottle because you usually cannot buy this outside of Kentucky.
Alexander Shunnarah (03:49):
That is a special spot here. And LeNell is the only person who actually has anything like this.
Mauro Fiore (03:56):
And thank you for... Mitre, your nephew, he told us to go over there and it was...
Bob Simon (04:01):
So this is Whiskey Row, and this is-
Mauro Fiore (04:04):
Whiskey Row in Louisville, if you've never been there, is where they have all the still houses and [inaudible 00:04:09].
Bob Simon (04:09):
Cheers, Alexander. We were looking forward to this interview for a long time. [inaudible 00:04:13].
Mauro Fiore (04:19):
That's very smooth.
Bob Simon (04:19):
It's good.
Mauro Fiore (04:20):
It's a little sweet. The corn needs you to taste it.
Bob Simon (04:25):
So everybody thinks most successful lawyer in the country, we see his face everywhere, he's got 150 lawyers, but nobody knows how you started. There's rumors of you coming from trust funds and getting all this money, but you started with nothing, man.
Alexander Shunnarah (04:43):
No, that was the furthest thing from the truth. And I honestly don't think you can build a law firm overnight. I think everybody's got these rich quick schemes. I think there's an old saying, inch by inch is a cinch and the yard is hard.
Bob Simon (05:03):
They call Mauro the angry inch.
Mauro Fiore (05:05):
Yes. Well, that's it. Have you been talking my wife again?
Bob Simon (05:08):
Yeah, okay.
Alexander Shunnarah (05:08):
And I worked for someone for five years, and then 23 years ago, August of 2001, I opened my firm by myself with just eight little cases. And it's just been one step at a time, one lawyer at a time, one employee at a time, and it's just building it one day at a time.
Bob Simon (05:29):
So you worked, it was Cory and Larson?
Alexander Shunnarah (05:32):
I worked at... And I would like to give a shout-out. They gave me an opportunity coming out of law school. It's a good law firm called Cory Watson.
Bob Simon (05:41):
Cory Watson.
Alexander Shunnarah (05:42):
Unrelated to Ernest Cory, and he knew me in my dad's liquor store. He'd come by sometimes when I was in law school, he'd get a bottle of wine or something and
Mauro Fiore (05:51):
Is that Khory spelled K-H-O-R-Y like that?
Bob Simon (05:54):
C-O-R.
Alexander Shunnarah (05:55):
It's C-O-R-Y.
Mauro Fiore (05:56):
Oh, I see.
Bob Simon (05:57):
So they do a lot of mass tort firms in Alabama. His sons, Jamie is just getting started as a lawyer.
Alexander Shunnarah (06:06):
Yeah, Jamie Cory is... Ernie's wife was a Shunnarah, and is actually my first cousin. And actually her father and my father were partners in the grocery business for 20 years, they were like brothers. So Ernie married my first cousin.
Bob Simon (06:27):
And so everybody, again, assumes that you had money to start your firm, but you were working at your dad's liquor store first.
Alexander Shunnarah (06:37):
Yeah, look, I grew up in a very, I'd say, below middle class. I wouldn't even say middle class, but had a lot of respect for my father. My father only had a sixth-grade education, and then he joined the service because he came over when he was 12 years old and couldn't read or write, and just fumbled his way through, I guess. My understanding is he quit the sixth grade. At 18, he joined the Navy. And then he got back out of the Navy.
(07:11):
And I'd like to give my dad a shout-out because honestly... And I hope everyone has the type of relationship I have with my father, he's 86 years old. But I will tell you, I would not be sitting in this chair... And I can't speak for everyone, but I have the best father in the world who was my number one fan, who always supported me. I have so many interesting stories about him, but I am who I am because of him, and I'm blessed to still have him. He's 86 years old, and he would probably do a much better show than me today.
Mauro Fiore (07:44):
Well, I think that you're in good company here because as you meet people over the years, they don't talk to their dad, their dad was this, their dad was that, they've got bad relationships. Bob
Bob Simon (07:57):
Best friend.
Mauro Fiore (07:57):
... his dad is his best friend. My father, God bless him, and he's gone, but when he was here, my dad was my everything, and he-
Alexander Shunnarah (08:04):
And he is my best friend, my father is because I don't have any brothers, and I have three sisters, but I still talk to him every day. It's an amazing relationship.
Bob Simon (08:12):
And now you've got three girls.
Alexander Shunnarah (08:14):
Well, I always joke, my dad was always working. And I grew up in a house with a mom and three sisters, and then traded it in, had about a 18-year break, and then ended up having a wife and three daughters. So I've pretty much been surrounded by, I guess, estrogen my whole life.
Bob Simon (08:34):
All your daughters, they're teenagers now?
Alexander Shunnarah (08:36):
Yeah, I'm blessed. I have an 18-year-old about to go to the University of Alabama, she got an academic scholarship. I'm proud of her. Her name is Alexanderandra. And then I have a junior, her name is Natalia. And then my baby is Olivia, she's 14. And they're actually on spring break at the beach, having a good time while we're here.
Mauro Fiore (08:58):
What beach do they go around from here? What's the beach that people-
Alexander Shunnarah (09:01):
Most people here go to Destin, Florida or they call it 38, it's between Panama City and Fort Walton. It's just an area where... It's just a very beautiful [inaudible 00:09:14].
Mauro Fiore (09:14):
Do you think you can drive there from here?
Alexander Shunnarah (09:16):
Yeah, it's four hours. It is some of the most beautiful sand. I know you could read about it, but the Gulf Coast of Florida has some of the most beautiful white sand beaches you've ever seen. It's just beautiful.
Bob Simon (09:33):
But how you came for lower middle class, you obviously have a lot of wealth now. Your daughters know you only as somebody probably from wealth by the time... How are you able to contain have them still have that spirit that you did?
Alexander Shunnarah (09:54):
I'll tell you that is one of my biggest Achilles heels. That's been very, very challenging for me. I'm not looking for an excuse. I think if God would've blessed me with a son, I think I would've been a lot harder on him. But for you who has three daughters, if they just look at me, I melt.
Mauro Fiore (10:19):
I have two daughters. I know what you mean.
Alexander Shunnarah (10:22):
You just melt. And they're so smart that they know that they own you, and they do manipulate you, and they're the only ones who can get away with anything and everything. But it's an unconditional love. It's an unconditional love.
Bob Simon (10:37):
But how do you keep them grounded?
Alexander Shunnarah (10:42):
Just by reinforcing, just talking to them every day, every day. Here's what I've noticed about my daughters, if I had to do... You'll learn when they grow. I'm a biblical man, so I found something in my journal about 10 years old. And even at that time, so we're back in those people up 10 years, like four years, so they'd be four, seven, and eight back then. The same things that I spotted in them, and I know your children are young, are still their Achilles heel now. I guess my advice is when you see a child with a propensity or a behavior, that is the time to start working on that corrective measure because it'll manifest.
(11:34):
And not to mean... I have a wonderful girls, they're amazing. But my 4-year-old, I said, I prayed for her to have more confidence, and she's still at 14 like she's coming out of her shell, she's a cheerleader and all that, but I can still see she lacks in the confidence, say... My middle child is the opposite, she's a mini me. I prayed for her to have humility, and she's 10 times worse now. And I'm like, "Tone it down, tone it down, tone it down." And then you're going to laugh, your first, Alexanderander, named after me, I prayed for her disobedience because she just doesn't listen to anyone. She doesn't listen. And she's still like that. What am I going to do to her?
Bob Simon (12:22):
I feel like it's always a first child thing. We just don't listen.
Alexander Shunnarah (12:25):
She walked in the other day or a couple of weeks ago, I don't know, it could have been a month ago. It's a Friday, they don't get out until 2:30 or something. It's like one o'clock, and so I was at home actually working. I was like, "What are you doing here? They let you out of school or something?"
(12:38):
She goes, "No, I just left."
(12:41):
I said, "What do you mean you just left?"
(12:43):
She goes, "No, I just left." She goes, "Didn't you do that, Dad?"
(12:46):
I said, "Actually, no, I don't ever remember just like when the bell rang that I'm just going to leave the school, go get in my car and just come home."
(12:54):
She goes, "Oh, we do it all the time."
Bob Simon (12:56):
Oh my god.
Alexander Shunnarah (12:56):
So-
Mauro Fiore (12:58):
There's certain things that kids have that you can't teach, and it's just what it is. My kids, my son specifically, my son, Max, first time I ever took him out to play baseball, tee-ball with the kids, first practice, you don't know if your kids are going to be competitive or whatever, man, he ran all over the field and got every ball and was knocking his teammates out of the way. And then when he wouldn't get the ball, he would get mad. And I told my wife, I came home, I said, "Oh, man, this son of a bitch is competitive." I said, "You can't teach that. He's got it, thank god." Because he could be like some kids in the team, these meek little mouses, they see the ball, they run the other way. My son's knocking people over to get it. So I was like, "God, he's competitive. Good."
Bob Simon (13:44):
Yeah. So did you know this is what you wanted to do? Because I think you are one of the people that I respect and call a mentor about the business of law. You've literally dialed this down to wearing purple. And you told this story last night about the McDonald's thing, which blew my mind. I don't know if you heard this because you were the other side of the table-
Mauro Fiore (14:07):
I think I was taking a snooze.
Bob Simon (14:08):
He is known to do that. But just share for us listeners, how did you get that business acumen, and how are you implementing that?
Alexander Shunnarah (14:18):
Well, to answer your first question, and I've never heard anyone to say this because they always ask you how you decided to get into law? And just being as transparent and as honest as I can be. One day when I was just thinking, I was like, "Okay, so what profession I want to go into? What intrigues me?" And the law just came up, and what I figured is everything is the law. So in my opinion, you've got God's law, you've got man's law, you've got universal laws.
(14:52):
And so I kind of took a deep dive into thinking about that. And it's like, "Okay, we all know what God's laws are. Let's just use the 10 commandments, supposedly." And then universal laws, that's gravity, right? And man's law, I can't punch you right here, there's consequences. And I'm like, "Anything you see, feel, touch, encounter, the law is somewhat intertwined in that." And I said, "Everything that's intertwined. There's rules on how we bury people, buildings, everything's the law." So I was like, "If the law is in everything, I want to get a law degree." And that's really what led me into going to law school.
Bob Simon (15:30):
I feel like the first semester of law school, I remember feeling after that first semester, I was like, "Shit, I learned more in three months than I learned in all of college and high school, combined, easily."
Mauro Fiore (15:39):
Remember that [inaudible 00:15:40].
Alexander Shunnarah (15:40):
You can do a lot different things with the law.
Bob Simon (15:42):
Yeah, you can do anything.
Mauro Fiore (15:43):
Do you remember that Al Pacino movie, The Devil's Advocate? You ever see that movie?
Alexander Shunnarah (15:46):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (15:47):
"Look, but do not touch. Touch, but do not taste." He doesn't listen to that at all.
Mauro Fiore (15:52):
Well, how about when he was on the train with the guy, and told the guy he was telling to get off the train. He goes, "Well, right now your wife is..." You can fill in the rest of it. But what he said in that, and they asked him, "You're the devil, why are you a lawyer?" He said, "Because the law is the ultimate backstage pass."
Bob Simon (16:08):
Ooh, I don't remember that.
Mauro Fiore (16:11):
That's what he said in the... And it's true.
Alexander Shunnarah (16:11):
I love when they were walking down the street and he says, "Never let them see you coming." Do you remember that one when he was talking to Keanu Reeves, "And never let them see you coming"?
Mauro Fiore (16:21):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (16:21):
We're goin to take our second pour, man. You've got to double up there, Butch. What was her... Connie Nielsen, was that movie, was that her name, who played the first one? I don't remember. God. Charlize Theron [inaudible 00:16:34].
Alexander Shunnarah (16:33):
Which was his sister, do you mean?
Mauro Fiore (16:33):
Charlize Theron is [inaudible 00:16:35].
Bob Simon (16:37):
She was in there, and the show was Connie. What was her last name? But the movie was great.
Mauro Fiore (16:39):
What do we got here though.
Bob Simon (16:40):
Oh, god.
Mauro Fiore (16:40):
Let's just talk about this.
Bob Simon (16:41):
So this is Starlight. This is Carl T. Hubers. This is finished in VDN barrels. So these are barrels that are aged. These are Spanish barrels-
Mauro Fiore (16:53):
Spanish wine.
Bob Simon (16:54):
Spanish wine barrels. This one's hard to find, and we found it in Alabama, and I've never had this one.
Alexander Shunnarah (16:59):
Wow.
Bob Simon (17:00):
Yeah. And I feel like you're such a unique taste and vintage that we had to pick something that none of us have ever heard of. I've heard of this, but I've never been able to find it, and it just happened to be...
Alexander Shunnarah (17:10):
Yeah, I've never tried it.
Bob Simon (17:11):
So this is-
Mauro Fiore (17:12):
Usually these bourbons that are finished in wine barrels are really smooth. They have a real different finish to it when you're drinking. They've got a finish to it that's a little different.
Bob Simon (17:25):
Yeah. So this is... I don't got my reading glasses on because my eyes have left me. So, Mauro, help an old man out.
Mauro Fiore (17:32):
This is Starlight Distillery, Carl T. Hubers, small batch bourbon whiskey, finished in VDN barrels, which is [foreign language 00:17:38]. They're Spanish orange wine barrels. [foreign language 00:17:46] barrels. So I'm sure... And this is out of Indiana.
Bob Simon (17:54):
Yeah, Indiana, the other side from Kentucky
Alexander Shunnarah (17:57):
To the Hoosiers.
Bob Simon (17:58):
To the Hoosiers. To the-
Mauro Fiore (18:00):
Oh, man, that's good. It's got a little orange.
Bob Simon (18:01):
You already tasted it?
Mauro Fiore (18:02):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (18:02):
Bad luck.
Mauro Fiore (18:04):
I did toast.
Bob Simon (18:08):
Mm-mm.
Alexander Shunnarah (18:08):
This is good.
Bob Simon (18:08):
Oh, this one's really good. Wow.
Alexander Shunnarah (18:10):
I like this one.
Bob Simon (18:11):
Yeah. What a different taste from across the river from Louisville to... Oh, this is good.
Mauro Fiore (18:17):
Yeah, I remember when I was in Louisville with you, across the river, they have a casino because in Indiana casinos are legal, but not in Kentucky.
Alexander Shunnarah (18:29):
Kentucky.
Mauro Fiore (18:30):
So you go across the river, just go across the bridge-
Alexander Shunnarah (18:31):
And they have it right over the bridge.
Mauro Fiore (18:33):
Some shitty paddle boat that's-
Alexander Shunnarah (18:37):
On the water, right?
Mauro Fiore (18:37):
Right on the water.
Alexander Shunnarah (18:38):
It has to be on the water.
Mauro Fiore (18:39):
It has to be on the water. But I went over there and gambled.
Bob Simon (18:42):
So we picked this evolution from beginning of Whiskey Row when you're working at your dad's liquor store to now found a little success. You started this journey of having a few employees, a few cases, and then you started doing billboards when nobody was doing it. No one. Walk us through that. How did that come to be?
Alexander Shunnarah (19:06):
Well, like I said, I started in 2001, and to be honest, for two years it was just me by myself. I didn't even have an assistant. But I tried to break it down in the simplest terms. My goal every day was to wake up, and when I make my mind up, I'm going to do it. And I said, and sometimes I fell short, "But I'm going to get one case every day, I'm going to send one demand out every day, and I'm going to settle one case every day." So the goal would be one, one, one, one.
(19:40):
And if you take out Saturdays and Sundays, you're 22, 23 cases, and that was the goal. And I did that every day. There were days I fell short, but I remember taking a demand at 10 o'clock at night. That's when they had the mail bins, and you had to go find the mail bin and put it in the mail bin, and-
Mauro Fiore (20:02):
Missing half of the [inaudible 00:20:04].
Alexander Shunnarah (20:04):
And then to sign up cases, I can't tell you how many waffle houses I was in or huddle houses at 2:00 A.M. trying to get somebody signed up.
Mauro Fiore (20:12):
We did the same shit.
Alexander Shunnarah (20:13):
And that's the kind of stuff I think I had to do to get there. And then I hired my first lawyer in like...
Bob Simon (20:21):
How long into your firm did you hire your first lawyer?
Alexander Shunnarah (20:25):
I hired my first lawyer in 2004.
Bob Simon (20:27):
Wow-
Alexander Shunnarah (20:27):
That was two years. I don't count the last four months of August because I just left that other firm. And I had eight little cases. But 2002 and 2003, I was by myself. And then I knew this clerk... Excuse me, he was a law clerk, but he had got his law degree from going down to the courthouse here. And his name was Darrell Matthews, give him a shout-out. And Darrell, I said, I remember, "How much do you make?" And clerks don't make much. It was like $21,000, I remember. And I was like, "Well, I don't have a lot of money, but if I give you $25,000 a year will you come work for me?" He's like, "Yeah." And that was the first guy we hired, or I hired, and then we got an assistant that's shared between the two.
(21:17):
And then I got into marketing, like you said, a little bit. And back then, I think you first got a little phone book ad, and then a little bit more phone books. And then I remember wanting to get on television because I saw the guys on TV, but I couldn't afford broadcast television. So they had these specials, buy one for $5 and get one free, but you were only going to come on from 12 o'clock at night to 4:59, so the overnight buys. And believe it or not, they started yielding some cases because I was like, "Okay, I'm a night owl."
Bob Simon (21:55):
What were you running? What kind of ads were you running at that time?
Alexander Shunnarah (21:58):
Oh, I found just some local guys and... Personal injury. Yeah, personal injury.
Bob Simon (22:03):
Yeah, but what was the content? Were you hitting a sledgehammer against the table or [inaudible 00:22:07]?
Alexander Shunnarah (22:06):
No, no, not that sensational. Just basically telling them who I am and things like... "Do you know that you can get three times more... Statistics show that if you hire a personal injury attorney, you'll get three times more than without having an attorney?" And-
Mauro Fiore (22:22):
A lot of people watch TV late at night.
Alexander Shunnarah (22:24):
And that helped. And then eventually we were able to work into getting daytime television. But I think I've told you this story before, around 2008, I woke up one morning, I was reading the USA Today newspaper, and it said that print was dying, and that San Francisco, I'll never forget it, had outlawed the actual big thick book in their city limits, and-
Mauro Fiore (22:54):
The phone book?
Alexander Shunnarah (22:54):
The phone book because it was online then, right?
Bob Simon (22:57):
And most people would just take it and throw it away [inaudible 00:23:00].
Alexander Shunnarah (22:59):
Right. And that was San Francisco's thought process behind it. So I made a decision that I was not going to renew the phone book ads, and I went and explored outdoor advertising. I didn't know anything about it. No lawyers were doing it either in Alabama, none.
Mauro Fiore (23:17):
That's crazy.
Alexander Shunnarah (23:20):
I mean, absolutely no one. And I've got to be careful how I say this, but I do think that I created the whole billboard phenomenon.
Bob Simon (23:31):
I hear a lot of people actually say that.
Alexander Shunnarah (23:34):
You can ask Lamar, they'll tell you that because the billboards was just a new phone book, in some ways, it's a branding mechanism. But I wanted to know why corporate America did it, like McDonald's and Nike. And I went and learned about the ping factor, and how it pings your mind consciously and subconsciously, and how year two is better than year one, and how it needs to be clean and simple, seven words or less. And I started thinking it-
Bob Simon (24:02):
Where did you learn all this stuff? You're just reading shit online?
Alexander Shunnarah (24:04):
Yeah. And marketing books.
Bob Simon (24:08):
And you're wearing purple today. And we were outside at Hunter Garnet who we had filmed with earlier, and you guys had read the same book about wearing purple or something. Did you ever hear this? I never did.
Alexander Shunnarah (24:19):
Well, the first marketing book is called... It's a great book mean by Seth Godin, called The Purple Cow. And the whole theme of it is we all go to the beach, we just mentioned that, and you're driving down to the beach. If you're going to the beach from Alabama, you're not going to go interstate all the way. So at some point you've got to get on these back roads or these US highways and you're going to pass all these farms. And you look to the right and the first time you see it, you're like, "Oh, look at the cows." And there's a hundred of them out there, but then the next 10 farms all the way down the beach, the last hour and a half stretch, you never even pay attention to the cows.
(24:54):
But the whole thing is, but if there was a purple cow, then you would notice the purple cow. And so it's a differentiator. So what is your differentiator? Everybody needs to have a differentiator. Now, being in my mid-fifties, really not about Seth Godin anymore, it's like I've lost all my vanity muscles, so I try to dress differently and try to stand out a little bit, at least with my apparel or something.
Bob Simon (25:27):
Yeah, because you're always very well-dressed, but not like South Florida-
Alexander Shunnarah (25:33):
No, definitely not the South Florida, but-
Bob Simon (25:35):
No, it's like a good-
Alexander Shunnarah (25:36):
More universal.
Bob Simon (25:37):
Yeah. That's nice.
Mauro Fiore (25:39):
You can wear a nice crisp white shirt and sport coat anywhere and-
Bob Simon (25:43):
Yeah, but with style.
Mauro Fiore (25:45):
... you'll be looking good.
Alexander Shunnarah (25:46):
Yeah, I think so. This is really my look every day, it's just a... I tell you, there's a great company here in Oxford, Mississippi. I'm going to give them a shout-out, one of my friends owns it, it's called Delta Blue Jeans. And it's a custom blue jean. And it's organic. And you know my nephew, Mitre, you have a lot of guys who are just... Off the rack, is not going to look. And these guys opened this business out of Oxford and they've just done amazing. They target professional athletes and stuff like that and-
Bob Simon (26:21):
This whiskey is very good, by the way.
Alexander Shunnarah (26:25):
And we all look better when we're fitted.
Bob Simon (26:27):
It's all fitted. So Mauro wears a lot of jeans that are like hungry butt jeans because it looks like the jeans are in his butt.
Mauro Fiore (26:32):
They're called [foreign language 00:26:33] in Spanish, it's like the jeans are eating or my ass is eating them.
Bob Simon (26:37):
Yeah. That's a good actually name for-
Alexander Shunnarah (26:39):
It just makes it... And you feel better. I think my favorite of all the athletes is the Deion Sanders thing.
Bob Simon (26:49):
Oh, Deion. I love that.
Alexander Shunnarah (26:50):
Just give him credit. When you look good, you feel good. When you feel good, you play good. When you play good, they pay you good. That mentality, he was spot on.
Mauro Fiore (27:02):
I went to law school with this guy named Simon Val, a good friend of mine. And we came up together, we graduated together, we were broke, sole practitioners, didn't have a fucking dollar. And this guy would always wear a suit and tie, crisp shirt, tie and everything. And I'd be like, "Man, you don't have any fucking cases, the fuck you wearing a tie for?" He goes, "I just feel like a lawyer when I dress like one. And every day I want to go to the office, I want to feel like a lawyer because if I feel like one I'm going to be one."
Alexander Shunnarah (27:32):
I think there's a lot of psychology with dress.
Bob Simon (27:34):
See, I'm the opposite. I can't wait to take my shirt off, I'll be in gym shorts and a T-shirt and be comfortable. But it's different because Simon [inaudible 00:27:41] right now is one of the most preeminent criminal defense lawyers in Los Angeles. If I found a body in my trunk, God forbid, I'd call Simon.
Mauro Fiore (27:48):
In LA, anybody who's in big trouble, they call this guy and they banned lots of money. But yeah, I came up with him, and we didn't have money for lunch between us. I've been practicing 26 years. We were broke.
Alexander Shunnarah (28:02):
Raymond was talking, do you remember, last night about how he had bought the Greens. And when Steve Jobs wore that black T-shirt every day-
Mauro Fiore (28:11):
I think he bought-
Alexander Shunnarah (28:12):
... that phenomenon, I know so many people who just kind of overnight just started wearing just some jeans and a black T-shirt. That's kind of gone away a little bit now, but you still have some diehards that do that. And it's like, "I don't have to think about what I'm going to wear."
Bob Simon (28:27):
Well, you still have every guy in finance in the northwest that always wears a Patagonia vest, and a collared shirt, and then khakis.
Mauro Fiore (28:35):
Son of a bitch if they don't wear that Patagonia vest, man, it is out of this-
Alexander Shunnarah (28:38):
Unbelievable. It's the holy grail.
Bob Simon (28:40):
It is. And, Alexander, and you told this fascinating story about as you transitioned from eight cases when you left your firm to now you have 150 lawyers-plus.
Alexander Shunnarah (28:54):
180.
Bob Simon (28:56):
180, oh my god, you must have hired 30 since the last time I talked to you. So-
Alexander Shunnarah (29:00):
Miter was the one last night, he said 170.
Bob Simon (29:01):
Wow, he's not close. So 180 lawyers, and now you're at the point where everything matters.
Alexander Shunnarah (29:11):
Yeah, watch the pickles.
Bob Simon (29:11):
Everything matters. And you told the story last night, you didn't hear this, but I was like... I want you to tell that story because it makes me think about stuff a little bit differently and how you get that little-
Alexander Shunnarah (29:20):
Yeah, I think you encounter... So I read this, and you can look it up, the Golden Arches, obviously they've sold a billion hamburgers. But about 20 years ago, and I wish that we were all in a room and trying to make that decision... That's what fascinated me the most. They were trying to decide for people... If you buy a McDonald's hamburger today, it's got two thin sliced pickles, and those little onion petals. But at one point, they had three pickles. And I guess they wanted to cut back the two pickles, but they were trying to balance the whole saying, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
(30:01):
But I guess after meeting, they made the decision to take the risk and the chance. It worked out a little bit better than, remember, the new Coke recipe, wherever that guy is who made that decision. But what's amazing is by just removing one pickle. They saved $17 million a day worldwide,
Mauro Fiore (30:25):
A day.
Alexander Shunnarah (30:26):
A day. One pickle, one thinly sliced pickle. And so with growth for all of us, and the larger you grow, you have to microscopically look down if you want to make a profit.
Bob Simon (30:45):
You've got to worry about thinly sliced pickles. Mauro only worries about the fat warty pickles.
Alexander Shunnarah (30:52):
And it doesn't matter if you've got Bob's Hamburgers, and you're doing low overhead, and a thousand dollars a day business, 2,000, who cares if you throw three pickles or two pickles. But when you're moving, I don't know, a billion hamburgers a day-
Mauro Fiore (31:10):
Yeah, I think that details matter, right? The details matter, that's what I've always done. I never scaled to a huge... like you have scaled your business to this-
Bob Simon (31:21):
Well, we came out of it just law for survival. We never flipped that business lawyer switch until probably recently, but he's been operating that way for 20 years.
Mauro Fiore (31:32):
The scaling part, the people that scale like there's big firms in this country, right? Big firms. The people that have the vision, one, and straight up to have the balls, do you know what I mean? To scale, you've got to have big balls.
Bob Simon (31:47):
But the other thing is a lot of people think that they have to take on institutional debt to run their firms.
Mauro Fiore (31:53):
I never [inaudible 00:31:54].
Bob Simon (31:53):
I never have. You never have.
Alexander Shunnarah (31:54):
I have never borrowed.
Bob Simon (31:54):
And he never has. Which is for his scale, he's probably the biggest firm by far that's never taken a dollar.
Mauro Fiore (32:02):
There's lots of the big firms staring to the hedge funds for billions, millions, and millions. I know the big advertising firms that everybody around the country has seen their billboard, a lot of them are into the hedge funds for big money.
Bob Simon (32:14):
Running on a hamster wheel.
Alexander Shunnarah (32:16):
And y'all get this look, the overhead that we have is enough. We don't need to also worry about paying the bank back. And I'd like to be the bank myself, you loan me... And these private equities and these... you're talking about 17, 18%. You're never going to get out of that hole. You're just not going to get out of that hole.
Bob Simon (32:38):
We talked last night about this, but Alexander, like us, we never charge interest to our clients, even though we have... I did the math at our firm, we did 68 million in case advanced costs in the past five years. I looked at it, I was like, "Shit, that's money you put in, you don't get back."
Alexander Shunnarah (32:54):
You know what's there, but you don't have access to it.
Bob Simon (32:56):
Correct. But how did you... For a lot of people out there starting their own firm right now, they feel like they have to do things a certain cookie cutter way. I feel like you have the most financial independence. Tomorrow if you wanted to walk away, you could do it. A lot of people do not have that pleasure.
Alexander Shunnarah (33:17):
Well, the biggest challenge is... You know this, your biggest costs are... I'm just simplifying it because we hire top eight lawyers. Most people know I pay my lawyers better than, I guess, what the national average is-
Bob Simon (33:34):
Let's go the last bottle because I want to talk about this. So at Alexander's firm, he is for hiring the best talent, and not being worried about you being the biggest ego in the room, hiring the best talent around you.
Alexander Shunnarah (33:49):
And encouraging them to build their own brand also.
Bob Simon (33:52):
Correct, and I think that's the biggest for lawyers who want to grow and scale at your level, that's paramount. So tell us what you brought because I think this tells a really good story about why.
Alexander Shunnarah (34:05):
Well, I know everyone has heard of this, but for this special occasion and you guys coming in town, I brought a Pappy 23, which is the golden grail.
Bob Simon (34:17):
He's doing the woogie-boogie.
Mauro Fiore (34:18):
I'm dancing.
Alexander Shunnarah (34:19):
I'm obviously a big fan of the weeded Bourbon and the Buffalo Trace Distillery. And trying to motivate my A-plus lawyers. It's been probably five years, maybe this is year six. I decided that, look, we get these cases and the lawyers work very hard on those cases. You're trying to get justice. They're complex cases. I know you two guys know them. And we're in these things for two years, three years, several hundred thousand dollars of investments. And we're all moving so fast that I came up with a tradition. When you're successful, and when we resolve that case that I'm going to give you a great bottle of bourbon. And I knew most of my lawyers, and I knew how much they loved bourbon just from all those years of just going out and drinking some bourbon with them.
(35:14):
And it has been one of the best things that happened in my firm. And it's fun to see. And another reason is you have to take the time, as hard as we go, you have to take a moment or two to reflect the wins, they're small wins, then there's the next project. But if you never take time to think about the win [inaudible 00:35:37] reflect on the win... And so it's a tradition. And look, it's been so much fun.
Mauro Fiore (35:44):
And now it's expanded.
Bob Simon (35:45):
What's your tradition with the Pappy?
Alexander Shunnarah (35:48):
Well, I hate to tie in economically, but you've got your Pappys, and it's not just Pappys, it's your J. Le Rouxs, all types of bourbon. But depending on the outcome of the case and the work that's put in it, then I guess as the giver, I decide what bottle of liquor that you get.
Bob Simon (36:10):
I guess they get other compensation too, but this is like-
Alexander Shunnarah (36:12):
Oh, of course, they get their compensation.
Mauro Fiore (36:13):
This is just a little sugar on top.
Alexander Shunnarah (36:14):
Yeah, it's a little sugar on top.
Mauro Fiore (36:15):
To celebrate the team win [inaudible 00:36:17].
Alexander Shunnarah (36:19):
And it's a lot of satisfaction in saying, "Look, great job. You did an amazing job. You're an incredible..." They're better lawyers than me, by the way. And it's just saying, "Look, celebrate this with your family or whenever you want to celebrate it." And I hand it to them, and it's just such a great feeling.
Bob Simon (36:32):
So that's poor little Pappy 23 because this is a-
Mauro Fiore (36:34):
And for those of you who aren't bourbon hounds who are listening and watching to this-
Bob Simon (36:39):
This is the-
Mauro Fiore (36:40):
Pappy 23, just to give you an example-
Bob Simon (36:42):
It's like a holy grail.
Mauro Fiore (36:42):
This is about a $10,000-bottle of bourbon. No bullshit. So this is-
Bob Simon (36:48):
Hard to find.
Mauro Fiore (36:50):
... about 10,000 bones, and we're about to drink some, and I'm going to drink some more when the camera goes off.
Bob Simon (36:56):
And his lights go off too, he might boof it. Oh, wow. Look at this.
Alexander Shunnarah (37:04):
And I guess the good thing is I've been passing them out a lot lately, the 23s.
Mauro Fiore (37:08):
Where do you get these? The 23s are so hard to come by.
Bob Simon (37:11):
Yeah.
Mauro Fiore (37:11):
You must [inaudible 00:37:12].
Alexander Shunnarah (37:13):
Well, no, I don't. Look, and you guys know this, bourbon is-
Bob Simon (37:18):
The color of this. Geez.
Alexander Shunnarah (37:20):
Bourbon is traded like baseball cards, right?
Bob Simon (37:22):
Like Pokemon for [inaudible 00:37:24].
Alexander Shunnarah (37:25):
Look, there's a-
Mauro Fiore (37:26):
The garbage [inaudible 00:37:27].
Bob Simon (37:29):
I'm a sloppy Bobby for many years. Oh my god, this is the best.
Alexander Shunnarah (37:33):
I can tell you here in Alabama, they have an allocation, and people sleep in a tent for three days to try to get in there and get one bottle of-
Bob Simon (37:44):
I used to do that for my Jordan's and Nintendo games.
Mauro Fiore (37:47):
Do you know what, man?
Alexander Shunnarah (37:48):
I think this is absolutely the best.
Mauro Fiore (37:50):
It's the same as you could get a ribeye at Sizzler, and you get a ribeye at Flemings. [inaudible 00:37:57] at Flemings is going to be better. There's lots of bourbon, but there's only one Pappy 23, and it is in a different fucking level.
Bob Simon (38:06):
That's where it trades.
Alexander Shunnarah (38:07):
I would like to, for fun, get in a 10-figure case or a nine-figure case, excuse me, and be able to go out and purchase the Pappy 25.
Bob Simon (38:24):
I don't think I've seen-
Mauro Fiore (38:26):
I've never even seen one.
Alexander Shunnarah (38:28):
It's a $50,000 bottle. And just to be able to hand it to that lawyer who's probably worked three or four years, and say, "It's an amazing job."
Bob Simon (38:37):
So we have-
Mauro Fiore (38:38):
We drank a Pappy 23 last time I had it.
Bob Simon (38:39):
We drank the whole bottle.
Mauro Fiore (38:40):
We brought our buddy, Steve Vartazarian, who's a big trial lawyer-
Bob Simon (38:42):
And he had a nine figure verdict, and brought it to-
Mauro Fiore (38:45):
He brought it, and me and Bob and him, we drank the whole bottle in one night, and Randy.
Bob Simon (38:51):
Yeah. And Brandon, my little brother, was there too. And savvy, so with the first bottle of Pappy we ever bought as a firm, he was an associate at the time, now he's one of our senior partners. He bought himself a bottle of Pappy as his motivational investment. And he put it up in his apartment above the fridge. And he said, "One day, I'm going to earn that." And he hit that, well, big verdict and now case law in California. But he hit that verdict, and he waited until they paid that multimillion dollar verdict. And we sat around the table and we drank the whole bottle. And it was a thing, like it's a family.
Alexander Shunnarah (39:29):
I think Pappy stands for celebrating the wins and the milestones and the accomplishments. And do you what's amazing and what I've learned about some of my very, very good trial lawyers? And they earn a tremendous fee also, and the firm gets a-
Bob Simon (39:51):
You take care of your firm very well.
Alexander Shunnarah (39:52):
It's a $25-million case, let's say it's a $10-million fee, and the lawyer is probably going to make a million dollars. He almost cares as much about that Pappy bottle that he can go buy, than the million-dollar fee. It's shown me a lot about people because even though they can go purchase as many Pappy 23s as they want, they won't purchase it for themselves, but when it's given as a gift, it means the world.
Bob Simon (40:24):
Correct. I'd rather have a Pappy than a plaque. I'd rather have this than an SEO badge.
Mauro Fiore (40:29):
Do you know what, there's a guy-
Bob Simon (40:30):
This guy gave me a fantastic bottle, which I have not opened yet.
Mauro Fiore (40:32):
I gave him a bottle of Pappy, this guy for business one year. But there's a guy who works in the PI space, named Sam Mirejovsky.
Bob Simon (40:39):
Oh, I love Sam.
Mauro Fiore (40:40):
I always say present company excluded, Sam Mirejovsky is a real genius of the PI business. One of the smartest guys I've ever met.
Alexander Shunnarah (40:49):
Where's he at?
Mauro Fiore (40:50):
Now he's in Nevada. But he started that SweetJames firm in California.
Alexander Shunnarah (40:55):
I know him.
Mauro Fiore (40:55):
He was a partner. James Bergener is SweetJames. It was Bergener and Mirejovsky for a long time. And then they broke up, horrible breakup. And then Sam went to Nevada and he took over Nevada now with this firm called Sam & Ash. But Sam, I always say is the smartest guy I ever met.
Bob Simon (41:10):
Smartest guy ever.
Mauro Fiore (41:11):
And Sam told me one time years ago, he said, "Mauro, associates, lawyers, people that work for you, your office, they respond more to recognition than to money."
Bob Simon (41:25):
So some people, they define success differently.
Mauro Fiore (41:27):
Recognition.
Bob Simon (41:27):
Recognition [inaudible 00:41:29].
Mauro Fiore (41:28):
... like you're saying.
Bob Simon (41:29):
Yep.
Mauro Fiore (41:30):
The bottle is worth more to them than the giant fee they're going to put in their pocket because it's the recognition. And Sam is always such... like I said, the genius of PI. He's so smart, and he's right just like yours, it's example A, exhibit A.
Alexander Shunnarah (41:46):
And B, and I tell you, in appreciating your people. I see so many lawyers, so many leaders, it's the old psychology thing for every... They talk about relationships, you need to have-
Mauro Fiore (42:02):
Hey, Alexander, I'm going to have seconds.
Alexander Shunnarah (42:05):
... seven positive affirmations for one negative affirmation. So you're always appreciating your people, thanking your people, recognizing your people. And I mean, if there is a situation where you need to speak to them, don't ever reprimand in public, reprimand in private, speak to them, understand them, know how to speak to them. Every lawyer is a different person, every personality is different.
Bob Simon (42:30):
So at the point where you're doing 180 lawyers, you're the biggest NBA coach of all time working all those personalities and all those egos, and it's very difficult.
Alexander Shunnarah (42:39):
And that's why Phil Jackson was successful.
Bob Simon (42:42):
Master of Zen. What was he?
Mauro Fiore (42:43):
The master of Zen.
Bob Simon (42:45):
Master of Zen. So Alexander, we're ending, kind of the end here. And we shared a story off before you pick your bourbon of proof here, but you started cutting grass, just like I did, as a kid. I smell grass now, it reminds me of my brothers and I just mowing people's lawns, and getting cash, and-
Alexander Shunnarah (43:05):
Raking it up-
Bob Simon (43:06):
Raking-
Alexander Shunnarah (43:06):
... putting it in the garbage bags.
Bob Simon (43:10):
But in the summer before I turned 18, my brother and I earned enough money to buy our first truck. And my dad's like, he went down to this used car dealership and he's like, "Bob and Brad," he's like, "I found this..." It was a Chevy S-10 Tahoe or Chevy S-10 truck, and he was like-
Mauro Fiore (43:27):
It was like a little pickup.
Bob Simon (43:29):
It was like a two-door. But we had enough that we could put extra mowers we were going to hire kids in the neighborhood.
Alexander Shunnarah (43:34):
That's cool.
Bob Simon (43:34):
He's like, "Bob and Brad," he's like, "this truck..." It was like 5,500 bucks. This was 1997. And he's like, "I think you guys can afford the payment because you guys have earned so much, you crushed it this summer." And he was like, "What do you guys think?" And my brother, Brad, my twin brother who now runs our law firm, he's a lawyer, Brad comes down, he runs up, we had stashed all of our cash in a Wheaties box. This was a 1993 Wheaties box when the Penguins won the Stanley Cup and they put all the penguins on the Wheaties box. We put all our cash there. Brad came down with 6,000 in cash. And my dad was like, "Boys, what the fuck are you guys doing having that much cash in the house?" But he took that cash, he bought a truck. And we talked, after this, you did the same thing with [inaudible 00:44:17].
Alexander Shunnarah (44:17):
So I graduated high school in 1985. And so in '83, after... I guess the summer of '83 before I went into my junior year, I did not have a vehicle. And my parents took me to school and picked me up. And it's kind of embarrassing in high school, but we couldn't afford a vehicle, or my dad wouldn't buy me a vehicle. So I made a decision to cut grass that summer, and I did. And back then, I saved $2,500, maybe made a little bit more because you're spending a little money. And I bought my first car. So it was '83, but I bought a 1979 Caprice Classic. It was black.
Mauro Fiore (45:00):
Those were like the old police cars, like a big boat,
Alexander Shunnarah (45:02):
Big boat.
Bob Simon (45:03):
Nice.
Alexander Shunnarah (45:03):
Big boat. And it was just great memories. I wish I still had that vehicle, but that was my... and then I had it my junior and my senior year in high school.
Mauro Fiore (45:12):
A lot of room to play in the backseat.
Alexander Shunnarah (45:13):
A lot of room.
Mauro Fiore (45:16):
I have a 79 Trans Am that I have right now. And this is fucking-
Alexander Shunnarah (45:19):
Is that the Smokey and the Band Trans Am with the eagle?
Mauro Fiore (45:22):
I have it in mint condition [inaudible 00:45:23].
Bob Simon (45:22):
We're going to drop this in the episode. I need a picture of this.
Mauro Fiore (45:25):
Eagle on the hood.
Bob Simon (45:27):
But cutting grass, by the way, for everyone watching or listening, good cash business. If you're doing car washes or cutting grass, it's a good way to launder your money, if you wanted to.
Alexander Shunnarah (45:35):
Interesting thing when you show the... And we're all having fun here, but when you show that first bottle of whiskey, and you said the cash being in the law business and owning your own little business, it was like, yeah, I missed the cash days because the first time I settled a case-
Mauro Fiore (45:55):
Uncle Sam wasn't involved.
Alexander Shunnarah (45:56):
The first time I settled a case, it was like a, "What's your tax ID number?" And you-
Bob Simon (46:00):
You need your social security-
Alexander Shunnarah (46:02):
You fill that W-9. 23 years, 28 years later, I've never gotten cash the rest of my life. I don't even have any cash anymore. It's crazy.
Mauro Fiore (46:14):
Our friend, Chris Dolan, was one of the most successful lawyers in the United States. He's from Connecticut, up there. He's from Connecticut, and now he's out of San Francisco. But he, during law school and after law school, he was a tree surgeon.
Alexander Shunnarah (46:30):
Really?
Mauro Fiore (46:31):
His company is called Esquire Tree Service-
Alexander Shunnarah (46:34):
Oh, that's cool.
Mauro Fiore (46:34):
... because he was a tree surgeon. And then he loves to chop down trees and used the... What do you call it? The chainsaw and all that. That's his thing.
Bob Simon (46:45):
So one day we'll talk about it because we're wrapping up, but we saw Chris Dolan use an EpiPen on his wife, like a surgeon, because she had a-
Mauro Fiore (46:51):
Twice.
Bob Simon (46:52):
I saw it once live. I saw it once live in Park-
Mauro Fiore (46:54):
In Park City, I remember you were there.
Bob Simon (46:55):
We won't tell the full story. We're going to Chris Dolan. We'll do a little... We've got to get him. But he stabbed his wife in the heart and said it was the most fun thing he's ever done in his life and saved her life. So now, Alexander, this is where you're going to pick your bourbon of proof. We have to exclude this bottle because it's obvious. So you have to pick between these two. What is your bourbon of proof? And it could be for a story, it could be your taste, but it's up to you, my friend. We know you like weeded bourbons. We know it. It's fine.
Alexander Shunnarah (47:23):
I enjoyed both of them. But I really liked the Starlight. It had a little bit of an orange taste, like he said. I felt it was a little bit smoother. And in the end, the taste is important to me, and I think that's an amazing bottle.
Bob Simon (47:40):
I agree. This one. That one was special.
Mauro Fiore (47:43):
I agree with you.
Bob Simon (47:44):
Alexander-
Mauro Fiore (47:44):
Alexander is special, and that's-
Alexander Shunnarah (47:46):
You guys are amazing.
Bob Simon (47:47):
And also we wore our... well, I wore my burnt orange for that orange flavored BDR.
Alexander Shunnarah (47:54):
I don't know if you noticed, they did really well against Yale the other day.
Bob Simon (47:58):
I picked them to win the tournament, and yeah, I know [inaudible 00:48:02].
Mauro Fiore (48:04):
I don't have a dog in the fight on the Alabama-Auburn game. Although I'd love to come and watch the game one year. I'm sure you're going-
Alexander Shunnarah (48:10):
You have, we call it the Iron Bowl, and I do think it's the greatest rivalry. I will personally put you in the box.
Bob Simon (48:18):
He also [inaudible 00:48:19].
Mauro Fiore (48:18):
I want to say, and I hope you don't mind, I'm a big golfer and-
Alexander Shunnarah (48:24):
Do you want to me to Augusta [inaudible 00:48:25]?
Mauro Fiore (48:24):
No, I'm going to the-
Bob Simon (48:27):
He played at Pebble last week.
Mauro Fiore (48:28):
I played Cypress Point, hardest course in the world to get on. But Justin Thomas, who's from Lexington, Kentucky, one of the greatest American golfers, went to Alabama, and he's a big [inaudible 00:48:38] guy-
Alexander Shunnarah (48:39):
I know who he is.
Mauro Fiore (48:40):
... Justin Thomas. So I'm an Alabama fan because of Justin Thomas.
Alexander Shunnarah (48:43):
Well, from a tradition and a success, and what Nick Saban done, who I know, it doesn't get any better than the Alabama tradition. My daughter's going to Alabama. It's an incredible, incredible school.
Bob Simon (48:57):
So, Alexander, thank you for coming on. So roll tide, roll joints. Thank you for coming on, Alexander, you're champ.
Mauro Fiore (49:02):
War damn football, or what is it Albert says?
Alexander Shunnarah (49:05):
War damn eagle.
Mauro Fiore (49:06):
War damn eagle.
Bob Simon (49:07):
War damn whiskey.
Alexander Shunnarah (49:09):
[inaudible 00:49:09] say rise up.
Bob Simon (49:13):
Oh, nice.
Alexander Shunnarah (49:13):
That's Atlanta Falcon.
