Where there's smoky bourbon, there's an ex-firefighter! Kicking off session 32 is Ryan Stygar, CEO of Centurion Trial Attorneys, aka "Attorney Ryan." Ryan shares his journey from fighting fires to advocating for workers' rights. Don't miss his reflections on team dynamics, Roman history, conspiracy theories, and Taylor Swift's influence on the Kansas City Chiefs.
Ryan Stygar, Centurion Trial Attorneys
Ryan Stygar (00:00):
Well, people forget it's a team, and it's not just, "Oh, here's the CEO, and you're the king and you deserve loyalty because it's your company," that's a very shortsighted vision. You need a team that functions even if you're having a bad day, they can step up, and that doesn't happen without buy-in, that doesn't happen without ownership, that doesn't happen without someone saying, "I have some control and I own a piece of this."
(00:28):
Yeah, this surprises a lot of people, but again, that's what happens when you're a second career attorney. People see you and assume you've been in the game much longer because you look a little older, but no, I've still been a firefighter longer than I've been a lawyer. It'll be next year I will have been a lawyer longer than I've been a firefighter.
Bob Simon (00:52):
Welcome to this episode of Bourbon of Proof, where we interview those lawyers who have been successful at law and life, and we do it over a series of whiskey or whiskey-infused products, and of course, I'm joined with my fabulous, handsome, dashing co-host, Mauro Fiore.
Mauro Fiore (01:05):
Thank you very much for having me again, Bob. Thank you for coming.
Bob Simon (01:08):
Yeah. Today, we have one of my favorite new personalities that I've met in social media, and now real life, who is an advocate for the workers, I mean a big advocate, you're a big dude.
Ryan Stygar (01:20):
Literally big, yeah.
Bob Simon (01:21):
Literally big, like I felt like a dwarf next to you. But I feel like if you have a red beard, you could actually be a dwarf in one of the Dungeons and Dragons movies.
Ryan Stygar (01:30):
I think every man goes to that phase where you want to see how long you can grow this thing out. I had a phase where I'd go out to bars and things, and someone would reach out and grab my beard and shout "Tormund. It's Tormund from Game of Thrones." Yeah, you learn quick that the long beard is a liability.
Bob Simon (01:45):
Well, you're big into the Roman history culture stuff.
Ryan Stygar (01:49):
I think about the Roman Empire every day. It's my Roman Empire.
Bob Simon (01:51):
I think about Roman Empire zero part of any day.
Mauro Fiore (01:54):
Me too.
Ryan Stygar (01:54):
How do you not think about it at least once a day?
Bob Simon (01:56):
Because I'm not a weirdo. Okay, we're going into the first one, and I want to thank Charles Lou, and I want to thank Tom Hardy for giving us his bar here at Bike Shed downtown Los Angeles. The first one we have is one of Mauro's favorite brands.
Mauro Fiore (02:07):
Yup.
Bob Simon (02:07):
Old Forester.
Mauro Fiore (02:08):
Old Forester, I've been to the distillery there in Louisville in Whiskey Row.
Bob Simon (02:13):
We've been together.
Mauro Fiore (02:13):
We've been there together. The thing about Old Forester, they have $15 bourbon, and they have $1,500 bourbon, and all of it's really good, I mean top to bottom.
Bob Simon (02:25):
They have, every year they do one called the Birthday Bourbon, which we'll have on the show. I don't know if we've had it on. I've had it, but it's an interesting one. But yeah, Old Forester started as a medicinal one, Old was just ... he was a doctor, right?
Mauro Fiore (02:40):
Yeah, that was-
Ryan Stygar (02:41):
Prescription strength?
Mauro Fiore (02:41):
During prohibition.
Bob Simon (02:42):
This one is actually very much ... This is 57.5% alcohol, so this is prescription.
Ryan Stygar (02:48):
Okay. You'll need a doctor's note for this one.
Bob Simon (02:50):
You ready?
Ryan Stygar (02:50):
Okay, here we go.
Bob Simon (02:50):
Here we go. Speaking of doctors, you were on Dr. Phil yesterday. How did that go?
Ryan Stygar (02:53):
Dude, it was fantastic. That was our second time because there's a lot of fight about the whole quiet quitting movement.
Bob Simon (03:00):
Really?
Ryan Stygar (03:00):
Yeah, it got heated up there.
Bob Simon (03:02):
I know you're not one to back down from a fight, for sure.
Ryan Stygar (03:05):
I tend to start some of them, but it was a good time.
Bob Simon (03:08):
Ryan Stygar, thank you for coming onto to this show. It's a pleasure.
Ryan Stygar (03:10):
Thank you for having me.
Mauro Fiore (03:10):
Cheers.
Ryan Stygar (03:11):
Thank you.
Mauro Fiore (03:12):
Bob, I'm going old school, an homage to my first appearance on Bourbon of Proof, I'm wearing the tiger suit.
Bob Simon (03:20):
If you ever get into the Inner Circle, we had a guest that was in the Inner Circle of trial lawyers, Mauro's inner circle is a little different, and you get honored with a tracksuit.
Mauro Fiore (03:27):
You get it in the mail, and you'll know it's from me.
Ryan Stygar (03:29):
That's when you know you're a made man.
Mauro Fiore (03:30):
That's when you know you're a made man
Bob Simon (03:32):
Made fun of man.
Ryan Stygar (03:33):
Made fun of. You know what? The right person is going to respect the suit.
Bob Simon (03:36):
You respect the suit.
Mauro Fiore (03:37):
Well, you would think. I gave one to a friend of mine who I will not mention, his name I won't mention, and we went on a trip recently and I said, "Bring your tiger suit."
Bob Simon (03:44):
Rob May.
Mauro Fiore (03:45):
"Because we're going to wear our suits." So me and Bob brought our suits, he didn't bring his suit and he's like, "Oh, I couldn't find it. " I said, "What do you mean he couldn't find it, man? I mean, how hard is it, and how big is your closet?" Then finally, we browbeat him and he had confessed to throwing it out.
Bob Simon (03:57):
I didn't know that.
Mauro Fiore (03:57):
Yeah, he told me he threw it.
Bob Simon (03:59):
Dishonorable.
Mauro Fiore (04:00):
Can you believe that? Who would throw out one of these suits?
Bob Simon (04:05):
You've never met Ryan, right?
Mauro Fiore (04:07):
No.
Bob Simon (04:07):
Have you ever met Ryan?
Mauro Fiore (04:07):
No. I met him at Law-Di-Gras.
Bob Simon (04:09):
No, he wasn't there this year.
Mauro Fiore (04:09):
You weren't there?
Ryan Stygar (04:10):
No, we've crossed paths.
Mauro Fiore (04:11):
I know I've met him before.
Bob Simon (04:12):
If you ever go to any weird parts of any urban areas, he's probably there. Anyways, Ryan, you're a second career lawyer ... your second career is a lawyer.
Ryan Stygar (04:23):
Second career, yeah. I was a firefighter first.
Bob Simon (04:25):
That's why we picked Old Forester, almost forest, you actually do it-
Ryan Stygar (04:29):
I love it. I love the connection, and it's delicious, by the way.
Bob Simon (04:32):
This is very good.
Mauro Fiore (04:32):
Were you like a city fireman or you were a Department of Forestry?
Ryan Stygar (04:35):
It was all rural. So Cal Fire, formerly known as CDF, that was my department, I did that. We did wildfires up and down the state. I did desert rescue. We had a state vehicular recreational park, that's Ocotillo Wells, I did that for some time.
Bob Simon (04:48):
I didn't know you did that. I had a quadriplegic case against Honda.
Ryan Stygar (04:53):
Really?
Bob Simon (04:53):
When they were out in Ocotillo Wells.
Ryan Stygar (04:54):
Ocotillo Wells, there we go.
Bob Simon (04:55):
I didn't know that.
Mauro Fiore (04:56):
I used to ride my quads down in Ocotillo Wells all the time, and it's funny because you would always see the helicopter landing out there all weekend long.
Ryan Stygar (05:02):
We had two helicopters stationed very, very close because when you live flight people out like that, the rate of incidents out there is so high, having just one helicopter is not enough.
Bob Simon (05:11):
I didn't know. God, I should have ... You're probably in a report.
Mauro Fiore (05:14):
The guy I went to high school with, I think now is maybe the chief of the CDF, his name is Jim Harris.
Ryan Stygar (05:18):
Jim Harris.
Bob Simon (05:19):
He was on our case.
Mauro Fiore (05:20):
Jim Harris?
Bob Simon (05:21):
I remember Jim Harris because he was the responder.
Mauro Fiore (05:22):
He's like the chief out there or something.
Bob Simon (05:24):
So I had his girl, she was first time in ATV, her foot got caught in the back part.
Ryan Stygar (05:28):
First time?
Bob Simon (05:28):
First time, and she was eight weeks pregnant at the time.
Ryan Stygar (05:31):
No.
Bob Simon (05:32):
The jury lashed out, but she ended up carrying that baby. She broke her neck full quad, went to a facility in Colorado, and she had the baby full term. The story is the most inspiring story ever, but he's now probably four or five years old. Crazy story.
Ryan Stygar (05:46):
Really? How is his health?
Bob Simon (05:48):
He's A+.
Ryan Stygar (05:49):
That's incredible.
Bob Simon (05:50):
She's now finally starting to be able to use her hands, and she's a big advocate for quadriplegic victims. She's in Laguna, she's not too far from you.
Ryan Stygar (05:55):
Oh, my gosh. Well, what a hero to go through that.
Bob Simon (05:58):
Well, Let's talk about your hero shit.
Ryan Stygar (06:00):
No.
Bob Simon (06:01):
Ryan, do you actually think that if we rake the forests we wouldn't have fires?
Ryan Stygar (06:05):
We'd do what?
Bob Simon (06:06):
If we raked the fires we wouldn't have forest fires.
Ryan Stygar (06:08):
What do you mean by raking them?
Bob Simon (06:09):
Come on, man. You never heard that famous line from Mr. 45, Donald Trump?
Ryan Stygar (06:14):
What do you mean rake the forests?
Bob Simon (06:15):
That's what he says, "If you rake the forest, we won't have forest fires."
Ryan Stygar (06:17):
He literally means like go out there and just rake it better, it won't burn?
Bob Simon (06:20):
Yeah, that's what he said.
Ryan Stygar (06:22):
In fairness, burning is a natural part of a healthy forest, so sometimes you want it to burn to some extent. But the CDF and Cal Fire, we put a lot of work into preventative measures, like taking care of the forest, making sure it's healthy, keeping the undergrowth in a manageable level. When we're not fighting fires, I spend a lot of time just hiking out there and doing maintenance on the forest.
Bob Simon (06:42):
Really? Do you still do this kind of stuff?
Ryan Stygar (06:44):
No, not anymore. I'm an indoor cat now. I had enough outdoor time, I'm good.
Bob Simon (06:49):
I'm more of a couch potato, couch treat creature.
Ryan Stygar (06:51):
That's the best kind of potato.
Bob Simon (06:52):
It is. I like a good potato as an Irishman. So are you Irish being with the red?
Ryan Stygar (06:56):
Not at all.
Bob Simon (06:57):
Oh, that's strange.
Ryan Stygar (06:58):
I kind of wish I was because it disappoints people when they find out.
Bob Simon (07:00):
I feel very cheated in our friendship.
Ryan Stygar (07:02):
I'm just English and defective. I don't know what happened.
Bob Simon (07:06):
But your teeth look great for an Irishman or an Englishman.
Ryan Stygar (07:07):
Dad's a dentist.
Bob Simon (07:09):
Really?
Ryan Stygar (07:09):
Free dental care goes a long way.
Bob Simon (07:11):
Wow, I did not know that.
Ryan Stygar (07:12):
There's a price to be paid. There's something to be said as, "Hey, it doesn't cost anything," but your dad's roasting you the whole time, he's poking at your teeth, you flinch, "Dad, that hurts." "Oh, you're fine." Embarrassing me in front of my [inaudible 00:07:22].
Bob Simon (07:22):
I saw some ... So for those of you that don't know, Ryan is @attorneyryan on social media, or attorney.ryan?
Ryan Stygar (07:30):
@attorneyryan, attorney.ryan is actually a really sweet guy out of Louisiana.
Bob Simon (07:35):
Louisville. Oh, Louis ... Yeah, it's Ryan Shervey-
Ryan Stygar (07:37):
Yeah, Louisiana.
Bob Simon (07:37):
Or Sherve?
Ryan Stygar (07:38):
I'm not going to butcher the poor guy's name, but he's really sweet.
Bob Simon (07:39):
But he's awesome.
Ryan Stygar (07:40):
Yeah, really sweet guy. It was funny-
Bob Simon (07:42):
Do you know Ryan?
Ryan Stygar (07:42):
When I was just getting started, he reached out.
Mauro Fiore (07:44):
Did we meet him at the Bourbon of Proof?
Bob Simon (07:45):
You've never met Ryan, I don't think, but we talk a lot on social media. He's cool. You've never met.
Ryan Stygar (07:51):
He DM'ed me when I was first getting started because he saw the names, he was like, "I suppose we have to fight to the death now." Ryan, if you're watching, I'll take you up, we'll arm wrestle for it. I don't know.
Bob Simon (07:59):
I wouldn't arm wrestle with this guy. I met him in person, you're a pretty big dude. So we had a former guest, Tom Kherker, we found out you guys went to college together, UCSB.
Ryan Stygar (08:08):
Yes, we did.
Bob Simon (08:09):
Even though he's from Houston. He told us to ask you, "why did you pick Attorney Ryan?"
Ryan Stygar (08:14):
Oh, my God, that is so funny. All right. Well, Tommy is a bit of a hero of mine. When I first got started on social media, I had no idea what I was doing. I was starting out, I didn't have any money, I didn't have an advertising budget, and I called him for advice because at the time he was crushing on TikTok, and I asked him for some tips.
Bob Simon (08:32):
This is 2019 or '20, '20, '21?
Ryan Stygar (08:34):
This is, it's got to be 2020, I think.
Bob Simon (08:37):
Now, mind you, for those of you who are watching or listening, Tommy is 29 years old currently, but he was a first year lawyer when he did this, 2019. You're for the same, what's your license, 2018 or '19?
Ryan Stygar (08:48):
No, it's '21.
Bob Simon (08:48):
'21?
Ryan Stygar (08:49):
Early January '21, yeah.
Mauro Fiore (08:52):
Wow.
Bob Simon (08:52):
That's crazy.
Ryan Stygar (08:53):
Yeah, this surprises a lot of people, but again, that's what happens when you're a second career attorney. People see you and assume you've been in the game much longer because you look a little older, but no, I've still been a firefighter longer than I've been a lawyer. It'll be next year I will have been a lawyer longer than I've been a firefighter.
Bob Simon (09:08):
Wow.
Ryan Stygar (09:08):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (09:09):
You do a lot of, and we will get into ... Well, you got to drink up, I mean, you're talking too much, part of this show is you got to keep going.
Ryan Stygar (09:15):
There we go. I'll give you another sip here. This is delicious.
Bob Simon (09:18):
Well, at the end you're going to pick your favorite.
Mauro Fiore (09:20):
You know, it's the opposite for me because-
Ryan Stygar (09:21):
This one's going to be tough to beat, I'm going to tell you.
Mauro Fiore (09:23):
It's the opposite for me-
Bob Simon (09:23):
It's one of his favorite.
Mauro Fiore (09:25):
Because people talk to me and they're like, "There's no way this guy's a lawyer," and I've been a lawyer since the 90s, so the opposite of you.
Ryan Stygar (09:33):
Well, it's giving mafia boss right now.
Bob Simon (09:34):
Yes. Yes. What you don't know about Mauro is Mauro did not go to an accredited law school, and he got an AA in golf course management.
Mauro Fiore (09:45):
Golf resort management.
Bob Simon (09:46):
Golf resort, sorry, I didn't mean to offend him.
Ryan Stygar (09:47):
Really?
Mauro Fiore (09:48):
Yes.
Bob Simon (09:48):
And crushed it.
Mauro Fiore (09:49):
And then I went to an unaccredited law school, and I graduated when I was 23.
Bob Simon (09:53):
23. He's been a lawyer since he was 23.
Ryan Stygar (09:55):
How many golf courses are we managing though?
Mauro Fiore (09:58):
Just one. I'm a member of one now that I love to play, but I'm not [inaudible 00:10:01].
Ryan Stygar (10:00):
Fantastic.
Bob Simon (10:02):
I'm more of a putter. I'm amazing putter.
Ryan Stygar (10:04):
I like putt putt.
Bob Simon (10:05):
Yeah, me too. I'll stick and there we go. This guy's actually pretty good at golf. Okay, I'm going to do the second pour for you.
Ryan Stygar (10:09):
Let's do this.
Bob Simon (10:10):
So you got to drink that because this one's going to be one of the most ... I've never had this, and again, I want to thank Booze Outlet for sourcing these very strange bottles. We asked Nico from Booze Outlet to find some weird shit, and he found-
Mauro Fiore (10:22):
Whicked Pickle.
Bob Simon (10:23):
This is Whicked Pickle.
Mauro Fiore (10:28):
I'm not that big into pickles, so this might be rough.
Bob Simon (10:31):
I'm not big into ... Actually, I now enjoy a good pickle, like a deli pickle.
Ryan Stygar (10:35):
I like a good dill pickle, a spicy dill.
Bob Simon (10:37):
Oh, boy.
Ryan Stygar (10:37):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (10:38):
Speaking of spicy, Ryan keeps it spicy, and this is why I picked it for you.
Ryan Stygar (10:42):
Where is this one?
Bob Simon (10:42):
On social media. This could have gone a very dark turn.
Ryan Stygar (10:47):
It could've. It still can.
Bob Simon (10:48):
It can, and may, and we'd love it.
Mauro Fiore (10:51):
Short pour for me. I'm not a pickle man.
Bob Simon (10:53):
Well, you might like this one.
Mauro Fiore (10:54):
Okay. What the hell?
Ryan Stygar (10:55):
Oh, man.
Bob Simon (10:56):
I've seen you eat and digest anything on trying to do it.
Mauro Fiore (10:59):
That is true. That is true.
Ryan Stygar (11:00):
What's the story with this pickle whiskey here?
Bob Simon (11:02):
Well, it's-
Ryan Stygar (11:04):
Oh, my God, that smells-
Bob Simon (11:04):
It smells.
Ryan Stygar (11:04):
It smells like a jar of glass-
Bob Simon (11:05):
It smells like pickles.
Mauro Fiore (11:06):
It smells like a glass of pickle.
Bob Simon (11:07):
So it's a spicy pickle, so this is-
Ryan Stygar (11:10):
That's a pickle, man.
Bob Simon (11:10):
Not only this is Whicked Pickle, but this is One Stiff Pickle. They have different brands, this is the One Stiff Pickle. You didn't even do a cheers, that's like seven pickles bad luck.
Mauro Fiore (11:19):
Okay, we got to cheers.
Bob Simon (11:20):
Oh, my God.
Mauro Fiore (11:20):
We got to cheers to the chili pickle.
Ryan Stygar (11:22):
There you go, cheers.
Mauro Fiore (11:23):
Chili pickle.
Ryan Stygar (11:27):
I can't get over the smell.
Bob Simon (11:29):
Oh, my God, that's actually good and weird.
Mauro Fiore (11:31):
Actually, it tastes better than it smells. This smells like a jar of pickles, but it actually tastes good. Strange, very strange.
Bob Simon (11:37):
I'd like to put some salami and bread in there and see what it goes with. So I picked this one for you, Ryan.
Ryan Stygar (11:41):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (11:42):
Because look at the face on this guy.
Ryan Stygar (11:43):
Yeah. No, thank you for picking this just for me. I love it.
Bob Simon (11:46):
Yeah, this is for Ryan. The reason I picked it for you is because you're not afraid to speak your voice on social media, and a lot of people try to toe the line or not get political, and you're very ... you're in the face. I heard your story about Dr. Phil yesterday about what you do, what you believe in, why you fight for workers. Can you explain that for us?
Ryan Stygar (12:08):
Yeah, man. Thank you for recognizing that, I do try to be a voice. I think with the platform and the following I have, it's almost a responsibility in my practice area to not be afraid to speak up and say, "Listen, things are getting harder for working-class people." Having been a blue collar guy coming up, working through the ranks, and trying to make my way in San Diego, of all places, I was financially strained even though I was putting in tons of work at the station. It just felt like no matter what I did, just life was getting harder and harder to keep up with. I really do have a soft spot for working people who are telling us today like, "I can't afford childcare. I can barely afford to decide between fresh groceries, and a full tank of gas. My rent is going up, but my wages aren't keeping up." It's genuinely my true belief that if we don't protect our working-class Americans, we're not going to have anything.
Bob Simon (13:00):
I think we're as strong as a country as you are as you're working class.
Ryan Stygar (13:04):
A 1000%.
Bob Simon (13:05):
My dad's a truck driver. I mean, we're all working class folk.
Mauro Fiore (13:08):
My dad ran car washes and stuff like that.
Bob Simon (13:13):
There you go.
Mauro Fiore (13:13):
He was a hardworking man.
Ryan Stygar (13:13):
That's the real economy, people driving trucks, building small businesses, putting things together. I think there's so much emphasis on, "How well are the rich doing? How well is the stock market?"
Bob Simon (13:25):
The stock market means nothing as far as how well they actually were.
Ryan Stygar (13:27):
It does, and that's what gets me fired up is people will say, "Well, the stock market's doing great. Look at all this wealth we're building," and it's like, "That means nothing to a single mother who's working two jobs and can barely keep up with rent." That's why I get really fired up.
Bob Simon (13:39):
That's why we see the unemployment rate sometimes is we are working two jobs at minimum wage and the unemployment rate is low. Well,-
Ryan Stygar (13:45):
Well, we have over-employment now. I mean, show me a working-class person, no family money, no trust fund, this is just a working class, honest, hardworking person, how many are just working one job at this point?
Bob Simon (13:58):
That's true.
Ryan Stygar (13:58):
I mean, the gig economy's blowing up because people are trying to bridge the gap from where their wages are and where the cost of living is creeping beyond their control.
Bob Simon (14:05):
Mauro and I travel a lot together internationally with our families, we hang out. We were in Switzerland, and we were talking to the folks there, and they were talking about how they have such high wages for everybody, and high wages lead to, in their society, much lower crime because nobody feels like they have to go out there and do certain things because the wages are higher.
Mauro Fiore (14:29):
I think the guy, our tour guide, said that the minimum wage in Switzerland was $4,200 a month if you work full time.
Ryan Stygar (14:36):
Is that US dollars or is it like a Swiss ...
Mauro Fiore (14:39):
The equivalent of $4,200 a month US, and you get free healthcare, and you get everything subsidized, and free education, free everything else. He says people, the lady works as a cashier at supermarket, and her husband works sweeping up at the market or whatever, between both of them they make like 10 grand a month, everybody's fine. Nobody is starving to death.
Bob Simon (15:03):
When you're unemployed and you take unemployment, the government pays you, but instead of you're owing the government more, you pay it at a lesser rate once you are employed. It's crazy.
Ryan Stygar (15:15):
Interesting.
Bob Simon (15:15):
But I was listening, I said, "This makes a lot of logistical sense."
Ryan Stygar (15:19):
Well, it's nice. What Switzerland appears to be doing is they're setting a floor, and they're saying, "Look, we're a society and we're going to make sure that no matter how hard things get or what happens in your life, you're not going to drop below a certain floor," like there's a certain level of security. I think the pushback we get here in the states when we talk about minimum wage increases, we talk about universal healthcare, things like that, they say, "Well, nothing's free." Yeah, of course nothing's free, we're not dumb, but look at the high cost of not having those things. Look at the high rates of drug abuse in this country. Look at the high rates of mental health crises in this country, the high rates of poverty.
(15:52):
Poverty is a policy choice, it doesn't have to be as endemic as what we're seeing. The problem is, for as many people like me pushing for higher wages and better benefits for workers, there's a lot of, unfortunately, much more powerful people who are saying, "Well, that's bad for business, and if it's bad for business, it's bad for America, so we're not going to consider it."
Bob Simon (16:12):
We got to finish this pickle because it's like fucking-
Ryan Stygar (16:15):
You've got me in a pickle right now.
Bob Simon (16:18):
No, I didn't think this conversation was going to go here. This one's making ... Mauro is falling asleep from the high pickle.
Mauro Fiore (16:23):
No, the pickle knocked my socks fucking off to tell you right now.
Ryan Stygar (16:28):
Holy cow.
Mauro Fiore (16:28):
It knocked my socks off.
Ryan Stygar (16:29):
What's the proof on this thing?
Bob Simon (16:30):
It's like 30 ... It's like 75%.
Mauro Fiore (16:31):
It's not much of the proof, it's just-
Bob Simon (16:32):
The taste of it.
Ryan Stygar (16:33):
You know what it is?
Mauro Fiore (16:33):
Definitely.
Ryan Stygar (16:35):
It's the spice, it's tricking me into thinking it's that-
Mauro Fiore (16:38):
Oh, it's out in left field. Shit. I've drank lots of bourbon-
Ryan Stygar (16:38):
I'm sweating.
Mauro Fiore (16:39):
This one's a different breed, this one.
Ryan Stygar (16:40):
It is spicy. It is pickle-y.
Bob Simon (16:43):
Oh, my god. We should have put you in the middle on the pickle.
Ryan Stygar (16:45):
Again, it's very delicious. Thank you, Robert.
Bob Simon (16:49):
Good Lord, we got to switch whiskeys because ... I mean, the spicy is the worst part of that.
Ryan Stygar (16:56):
Actually, I find it to be the best part. I can't get over that I feel like I'm drinking pickle juice. It feels like a pickle shot.
Bob Simon (17:03):
This might actually be like actual fermented disgusting pickle juice.
Ryan Stygar (17:07):
Someone came out and said it, okay
Mauro Fiore (17:10):
Bob, I like to say I have an iron constitution. As you know you've been around the world with me, I can eat anything.
Bob Simon (17:17):
True.
Mauro Fiore (17:18):
Drink anything. This Whicked Pickle did me in.
Bob Simon (17:21):
You're done?
Mauro Fiore (17:21):
It knocked my socks fucking off. I got to cleanse my palate.
Bob Simon (17:27):
So we're going to do with the high and-
Ryan Stygar (17:30):
I got to take my medicine and empty this, don't I?
Bob Simon (17:31):
Take your medicine.
Mauro Fiore (17:32):
I got to pay for the the rest of this shit.
Bob Simon (17:33):
You started medicinal. Come on, Old Forester. So this one we picked, this is the High N' Wicked, not the Whicked Pickle, the High N' Wicked. I've seen a lot of the posts that you have about the High N' Wicked taking advantage of working folk. This is another high proof one, but this is a straight bourbon.
Mauro Fiore (17:51):
I'll tell you I have bad eyes, and this has very small print, but I did read the bottle, 107 proof, 12 year, which 12 year to me means it's going to be nice and smooth.
Ryan Stygar (18:03):
All right.
Bob Simon (18:04):
We shall see.
Mauro Fiore (18:04):
Let's hope it doesn't taste like that pickle-
Bob Simon (18:06):
To High N' Wicked.
Mauro Fiore (18:06):
It doesn't taste like that pickle shit.
Ryan Stygar (18:08):
Oh, there you go.
Bob Simon (18:10):
If it does, he might be like a moon boost out of here. Smells better.
Mauro Fiore (18:15):
That's what I'm talking about. Now that's a nice bourbon.
Bob Simon (18:18):
That is fantastic.
Mauro Fiore (18:20):
Very smooth.
Bob Simon (18:20):
For that, high proof to this. It's pretty good.
Mauro Fiore (18:22):
Yeah, that's nice.
Ryan Stygar (18:22):
Oh, yeah.
Mauro Fiore (18:23):
High N' Wicked, I definitely recommend it.
Bob Simon (18:25):
So the High N' Wicked, and I chose this one for you, Ryan. This is from my personal stash.
Mauro Fiore (18:28):
This one's called the Honorable.
Bob Simon (18:29):
Yes.
Ryan Stygar (18:31):
Look at that.
Bob Simon (18:31):
This was a very selective pick, and the reason I did is because you do a lot of wage gap, company gap earnings. I saw one post that you did about if they just reallocated the wealth that they're having at the top, how much you can actually have affordable workers.
Ryan Stygar (18:46):
Yeah. It's counterintuitive, but this idea that the executives paying themselves big bonuses, stock buybacks, I think it's counterproductive to these companies. I think that if you took a little less profit in the short-term and reinvested in your people, you're going to have a higher motivated workforce. They're going to produce more for you. I mean, your team will sacrifice for you, they will go above and beyond, but they need to know first that you actually give a shit about them. When you're paying yourselves giant bonuses, and doing stock buybacks, and talking about record profits, and they're sitting there saying, "I got a 5 cent an hour raise this year, asshole," that's not someone who's going to work hard for you. I say it's good business to take care of your team.
Mauro Fiore (19:27):
I agree with you there, for sure.
Ryan Stygar (19:27):
You guys are business owners.
Bob Simon (19:28):
Exactly.
Ryan Stygar (19:28):
You know if you take care of your people, they take care of you.
Bob Simon (19:30):
We were talking about this earlier. We give back so much to the rest of our firm, and sometimes they don't realize how much we put into the firm and how much costs just to operate. We give everybody equity into our company.
Ryan Stygar (19:41):
Everyone gets some buy-in.
Bob Simon (19:42):
Correct. I love when I see companies, there's a lot in San Diego, one of the big breweries down there is an employee-owned. It's one of the big ones.
Ryan Stygar (19:51):
San Diego has what, 450 something local breweries?
Mauro Fiore (19:54):
That one, Karl-
Ryan Stygar (19:55):
It's got a really high con ... Karl Strauss?
Bob Simon (19:57):
It's not Karl Strauss, it's the other big one. Ballast-
Ryan Stygar (19:59):
Ballast Point.
Bob Simon (20:02):
Oh, God, what's the other?
Ryan Stygar (20:02):
Stone.
Bob Simon (20:02):
Is it Stone?
Ryan Stygar (20:02):
Green Flash.
Bob Simon (20:03):
Stone is the one ... one of them owned, they're employee-owned, where they let-
Mauro Fiore (20:06):
Arrogant Bastard, that one?
Ryan Stygar (20:08):
That's part of the Stone Brewing.
Mauro Fiore (20:11):
That's part of it?
Ryan Stygar (20:11):
Yeah. Well, they took over the world.
Bob Simon (20:11):
You like them though.
Mauro Fiore (20:12):
I'm not a big beer drinker myself.
Ryan Stygar (20:13):
I'm allergic to it now.
Bob Simon (20:15):
Really?
Ryan Stygar (20:15):
That's a cruel irony man. It happened when I was like 28.
Bob Simon (20:18):
You are English.
Ryan Stygar (20:19):
I was just covered in spots all the time.
Bob Simon (20:20):
You're not Irish.
Ryan Stygar (20:21):
I told you, man, I'm a defective Englishman.
Bob Simon (20:25):
I had one of my friends in college, and he was big into whiskey and drinking, and he found out that he was allergic to whiskey, it was like the biggest curse. It was the biggest blessing because that guy was an alcoholic.
Ryan Stygar (20:34):
It was a blessing. Not an alcoholic, but I kid you not, I needed a nap every day, 1:00 PM it came around. I crashed, and I was covered in rashes, and I would tell people, "Oh, I'm just a ginger, sensitive skin." I was poisoning myself. I cut out the beer, and I immediately lost like 15 pounds.
Bob Simon (20:51):
What was it about the beer that-
Ryan Stygar (20:53):
It's the gluten.
Bob Simon (20:53):
The gluten.
Ryan Stygar (20:54):
Yeah.
Bob Simon (20:54):
We were out to lunch one time, and they accidentally gave him gluten in the noodles instead of glass noodles.
Mauro Fiore (20:59):
Oh.
Ryan Stygar (21:00):
It's okay.
Bob Simon (21:00):
I picked it right away.
Ryan Stygar (21:01):
That's okay.
Mauro Fiore (21:01):
Celiac, whatever they call that.
Ryan Stygar (21:03):
Not celiac, no, just you have a rough time in the bathroom, and you're going to itch.
Bob Simon (21:08):
Well, he has a rough time in the bathroom.
Ryan Stygar (21:09):
That's just a regular day.
Mauro Fiore (21:11):
That's a cross-eyed bear. It's a cross-eyed bear.
Bob Simon (21:14):
Is it a cross you bear or a cross-eyed bear? It depends on what you eat.
Mauro Fiore (21:18):
Both. But to bring back-
Bob Simon (21:19):
Mauro has some great bathroom stories by the way, and we'll do that off camera.
Mauro Fiore (21:23):
Yes, I do. I do have some good ones.
Ryan Stygar (21:24):
Your bathroom lore runs deep, doesn't it?
Mauro Fiore (21:26):
Yeah. Well, I'm kind of legendary.
Ryan Stygar (21:27):
You're in there sweating and pushing. This is a cannon event.
Mauro Fiore (21:31):
No, but back to what he was saying, I have this conversation with my accountant almost every year in December. He comes in with the bad news of as they say if you're rich, you suffer your taxes, right?
Ryan Stygar (21:43):
Mm-hmm.
Bob Simon (21:44):
I never heard that.
Mauro Fiore (21:45):
So I'm always suffering my taxes because I make a lot of money, so then I got to pay a lot of taxes. This is how it works. So my accountant comes in and he says, "You have so many highly compensated employees, why do you pay them so much?" And I was like, "That's just how we do it here." You know what I mean? Because the way I look at it, the people that work in my office, they put their blood and tears, and sweat, and they work on the weekends, they sacrifice their time with their families and everything in order for us all to rise.
Bob Simon (22:19):
But you give away so much. I don't remember anybody ever leaving your firm.
Mauro Fiore (22:24):
No, nobody leaves my office. I've had people work at me 20 years plus because I take care of them, because I see that as much as I like to go to Switzerland with Bob, so does the receptionist at my office, she wants to go to Switzerland too. So does every person that works there wants to go to Switzerland, or wants to go to Spain like me and this guy, and go to Barcelona and get drunk on the beach. They want it too.
Bob Simon (22:49):
Well, we don't get drunk on the beach.
Mauro Fiore (22:50):
Well.
Bob Simon (22:50):
Adjacent.
Mauro Fiore (22:51):
Adjacent.
Ryan Stygar (22:52):
Well, you see what they do.
Mauro Fiore (22:52):
So you have to understand-
Ryan Stygar (22:54):
Yeah, you see it.
Mauro Fiore (22:54):
That they have to be also-
Bob Simon (22:55):
But I think we also grew up that way too. I mean, I saw some pictures of you when you were a little 8-year-old in a firetruck.
Ryan Stygar (23:01):
Oh, my God. I was-
Bob Simon (23:03):
I saw it recently. It was pretty cool.
Ryan Stygar (23:04):
Four or five. I was four. I was four. It was 1994.
Bob Simon (23:07):
You were four, but you looked like you were eight in that photo. Big human, this guy.
Ryan Stygar (23:11):
You just eat your broccoli.
Bob Simon (23:12):
Wow. Your Broccoli, that's what you attribute it to?
Ryan Stygar (23:15):
It was broccoli, butter, and beef.
Mauro Fiore (23:15):
My son loves broccoli. My five-year old loves broccoli.
Bob Simon (23:18):
Wow, broccoli.
Ryan Stygar (23:19):
Yeah, man.
Bob Simon (23:20):
It's full of vitamins.
Ryan Stygar (23:21):
You eat greens your health, you eat your meat for your strength, and then everything else is for energy.
Bob Simon (23:26):
Okay, we'll teach a different class. Where do pickles fit in that? In the middle?
Ryan Stygar (23:29):
Where do pickles fit?
Mauro Fiore (23:31):
The pickles are fitting in the trash stuff.
Ryan Stygar (23:32):
The pickles are punishment.
Mauro Fiore (23:33):
In the trash can.
Ryan Stygar (23:35):
It's the pickles that you get if you don't eat your broccoli.
Bob Simon (23:37):
God, I used to like pickles, and now I think I'm scarred.
Mauro Fiore (23:41):
I can never eat a pickle again.
Bob Simon (23:43):
At least on a stiff pickle. Would you like a rubbery pickle?
Mauro Fiore (23:47):
No.
Ryan Stygar (23:48):
No one likes a rubbery pickle.
Bob Simon (23:49):
I don't think anybody does.
Mauro Fiore (23:50):
I like the ones that snap, the one with a duck.
Ryan Stygar (23:51):
A crunchy pickle.
Mauro Fiore (23:52):
What's the one with a duck on the jar? There's a duck on the-
Bob Simon (23:54):
Oh, [inaudible 00:23:55].
Ryan Stygar (23:54):
That's a swan.
Mauro Fiore (23:56):
Oh, it's a swan.
Bob Simon (23:56):
It's a swan.
Mauro Fiore (23:57):
Yeah, it's swan.
Ryan Stygar (23:57):
Is it goose?
Mauro Fiore (23:58):
Or goose, yeah, yeah. Well, we're thinking of-
Bob Simon (24:00):
I like when they have a charcuterie board, and it took me, by the way, many-
Mauro Fiore (24:03):
How many years?
Bob Simon (24:05):
Many awkward dinners to figure out how to-
Ryan Stygar (24:08):
A charcuterie?
Bob Simon (24:09):
How it's pronounced, with those little pickles.
Mauro Fiore (24:11):
Can I get the chaicanary board?
Ryan Stygar (24:13):
What was it? Cornichon, that's what that is.
Bob Simon (24:15):
What is it called?
Ryan Stygar (24:15):
The little pickle.
Bob Simon (24:16):
Yeah, what's it called?
Ryan Stygar (24:16):
It's a cornichon.
Bob Simon (24:18):
This guy knows his pickles.
Mauro Fiore (24:20):
Wow.
Ryan Stygar (24:20):
I know pickles, man, and that's when I tell you there's something going on over there.
Bob Simon (24:23):
So for all those people who are watching or listening, depending on the medium that you're doing it, Attorney Ryan has a big following, and a big voice, and advocate, millions of shares that I see all the time on the post that you do, and you are a two and a half year lawyer? Three year lawyer?
Ryan Stygar (24:41):
No, we're three years January.
Bob Simon (24:43):
Three years?
Ryan Stygar (24:44):
Yeah, in the fourth.
Bob Simon (24:45):
So what did you, I mean, I know you had no financial means. You didn't like-
Ryan Stygar (24:50):
Yeah, it was pretty [inaudible 00:24:52] started out.
Bob Simon (24:53):
You didn't have any private equity money to jumpstart your firm?
Ryan Stygar (24:55):
Negative.
Bob Simon (24:55):
Is that what you're saying?
Mauro Fiore (24:55):
What?
Ryan Stygar (24:56):
Negative. None of that. What was that?
Mauro Fiore (24:58):
No private equity money?
Ryan Stygar (24:59):
No, none of that. None of that. I'll tell you what though-
Mauro Fiore (25:04):
No VC capital?
Ryan Stygar (25:05):
None of the VC capital, none of that. I will say I had people who loved me, and I had mentors. It's so funny to look back and say, "I didn't really do this by myself." Some people don't like when I say, "I don't feel self-made," because no one wrote me a check, but so many people said, "Let me teach you something. Let me answer some questions. Hey, man, how's it going?" And just supporting me. A lot of people don't even have that, and I'm really grateful for that. I would not have been able to start my firm if it wasn't for 25 and 30 year attorneys willing to jump in cases with me.
Bob Simon (25:39):
But how did you find those folks?
Ryan Stygar (25:40):
Law school. I was really active in law school. I tutored a lot, and I got to know the community.
Bob Simon (25:44):
Where did you go to law school?
Ryan Stygar (25:45):
Cal Western.
Bob Simon (25:46):
Nice.
Ryan Stygar (25:46):
California Western School, downtown San Diego.
Bob Simon (25:50):
So there's a lot of ...
Ryan Stygar (25:50):
It's the haunted one. It's the haunted campus.
Bob Simon (25:53):
He went [inaudible 00:25:53].
Mauro Fiore (25:53):
Gene Sullivan went to Cal Western.
Bob Simon (25:54):
Really?
Mauro Fiore (25:55):
Yeah. Gene Sullivan, yeah, they went there.
Bob Simon (25:57):
He's another one with red hair.
Mauro Fiore (25:59):
Gene's got no hair.
Bob Simon (26:00):
He shaves it off. Have you ever seen him without his, well, if he hasn't shave his head?
Mauro Fiore (26:03):
I have seen it. I have seen it.
Ryan Stygar (26:04):
I shaved mine off at one point too. I don't blame him.
Bob Simon (26:06):
But he has a full head of hair. He looks like Lex Luther, we're like, "Why do you shave your head?" We saw a picture. He has long red, curly locks.
Ryan Stygar (26:14):
Well, the bald head's a statement.
Bob Simon (26:15):
It is.
Ryan Stygar (26:16):
It's got an intimidation component too.
Bob Simon (26:18):
I mean, they've done studies on it.
Ryan Stygar (26:19):
Imagine The Rock with a full head of hair.
Bob Simon (26:21):
I've seen it-
Ryan Stygar (26:21):
It doesn't work.
Bob Simon (26:22):
When he was Rocky. He was a different person, Rocky, what was his name back in the day?
Mauro Fiore (26:27):
When wrestling?
Bob Simon (26:27):
Wrestling.
Ryan Stygar (26:28):
I remember in Scorpion King.
Bob Simon (26:30):
Oh, my God, Scorpion King.
Ryan Stygar (26:30):
Remember Scorpion King? He had that long hair.
Bob Simon (26:34):
He looks much better now, I guess. So Ryan, as we go through all these different whiskeys journey across, one of the things I wanted to bring up with you is your passion for helping people on a massive scale. Obviously, you have ... at your firm, I think you're all virtual, you have 12-
Ryan Stygar (26:51):
Pretty much. It's hybrid. I have some people who come in two or three days a week to help me with mailing and things like that, but not virtual, just letting go and letting people work on their terms, giving them ownership. I tend to overpay, but I don't have to deal with high turnover. I don't have to deal with people feeling burnt out. Everyone is willing to step up when we need them to step up.
Bob Simon (27:12):
So you're not monitoring keystrokes, and have cameras on them when they're working?
Ryan Stygar (27:15):
I feel so bad for ...
Bob Simon (27:16):
It's so weird.
Ryan Stygar (27:16):
I mean, I feel bad for the worker, but I feel bad for the manager. How insecure are you that client experience doesn't matter, the verdict doesn't matter, the settlement check doesn't matter, all you care about is how many keystrokes your paralegal put in? What is wrong with you? Who caress?
Mauro Fiore (27:30):
It is kind of odd.
Ryan Stygar (27:31):
If anything, I want fewer keystrokes because that's efficiency.
Mauro Fiore (27:35):
You guys know that company Zappos, the shoe company?
Bob Simon (27:37):
Yeah.
Ryan Stygar (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mauro Fiore (27:38):
Did you ever read the book that the guy who, I don't know if he killed himself or he died under weird circumstances, the guy who founded Zappos, the guy's name was like Tony Hsieh-
Bob Simon (27:46):
Oh, yeah, I listened to his How I Built This, and that guy's pretty-
Mauro Fiore (27:50):
He used to let his employees pick their shift, what time they worked, he would let them set their own salaries too.
Bob Simon (27:57):
Really?
Mauro Fiore (27:59):
This was decade before the pandemic, he let them work from home. He had a complete different view of how to manage the workforce, and Zappos was a crazy successful company.
Bob Simon (28:13):
If you invest in your employees that's how secure-
Ryan Stygar (28:15):
Well, people forget it's a team, and it's not just, "Oh, here's the CEO," and you're the king and you deserve loyalty because it's your company, that's a very shortsighted vision. You need a team that functions even if you're having a bad day, they can step up, and that doesn't happen without buy-in, that doesn't happen without ownership, that doesn't happen without someone saying, "I have some control."
Bob Simon (28:36):
Are you a Green Bay Packers fan?
Ryan Stygar (28:38):
Not at all, but I do appreciate that they're a fan-owned team.
Bob Simon (28:41):
There we go.
Ryan Stygar (28:41):
I like that a lot.
Bob Simon (28:41):
He know the difference.
Mauro Fiore (28:41):
And.
Bob Simon (28:43):
And what?
Mauro Fiore (28:44):
As a side note.
Bob Simon (28:46):
Here we go. You're wearing their colors.
Mauro Fiore (28:47):
I actually own one share of the Green Bay Packers.
Bob Simon (28:49):
No, you don't.
Mauro Fiore (28:49):
Yes, I do.
Ryan Stygar (28:50):
Wow, NFL team owner in our midst.
Mauro Fiore (28:53):
I'm a NFL team owner.
Ryan Stygar (28:54):
Wow.
Mauro Fiore (28:54):
It's funny because every year I get the email about the shareholder meeting that I could actually go to, even though I own one shitty non-voting share. It says when you buy it, because they've only sold shares twice in their history, and I just happened to be bored one day on the internet and I saw that it came out, and I went in there and I bought two shares. I bought one for me, and one for my buddy, and they sent it to his house and he's like, "What is this?" I said, "Dude, do you own part of the Packer."I sent it to Dordick, so Dordick has a share and I have a share of the Packers, and every year I get the updates because I'm a shareholder, but it's very clear that I have no voting rights, it's not worth anything. It's basically just useless, but I paid a thousand bucks for it, I think.
Ryan Stygar (29:34):
Do you at least have the cheese hat?
Mauro Fiore (29:35):
No, I'm not really a Packer fan either, but I do like the fact that I own part of the team.
Bob Simon (29:39):
He used to be a tight end, but now they've worked him into a wide receiver.
Ryan Stygar (29:42):
Oh, okay, that makes sense.
Bob Simon (29:44):
Yes.
Ryan Stygar (29:44):
I see you in a skill position. That makes sense.
Mauro Fiore (29:46):
His jokes are so bad. These are the worst, man. The worst.
Bob Simon (29:54):
That was a good joke.
Mauro Fiore (29:55):
Actually, it was a good one.
Bob Simon (29:56):
Okay, thank you. Mauro has some very ... he uses a lot of jokes over and over.
Ryan Stygar (30:00):
Usually Packers, I mean, you can see the results there, look at that fan base. It doesn't really matter how well the Packers are doing, that is a town that shows up for their team in good times and in bad.
Bob Simon (30:11):
Whenever my team doesn't make the Super Bowl or, pick the sport, I root for the fan base that cares the most.
Ryan Stygar (30:17):
There we go.
Bob Simon (30:17):
Yeah, it should be.
Ryan Stygar (30:18):
Exactly.
Bob Simon (30:18):
That's where it should be. Well, hockey, the Penguins are out, or the Kings ... Oh, shit, I sponsor the Kings so I can't say that.
Ryan Stygar (30:24):
You can't be talking shit on the Kings.
Bob Simon (30:25):
I can't be talking shit on the Kings. All right. Anyway, if an American team is out of the NHL finals-
Mauro Fiore (30:30):
Speaking of that-
Bob Simon (30:30):
I always root for the Canadian team because they [inaudible 00:30:33].
Mauro Fiore (30:32):
Who do you like in the Super Bowl? I think the Niners have a tremendous fan base.
Bob Simon (30:36):
But by the time this airs we will know.
Ryan Stygar (30:38):
Wait, who has the Swifties though?
Mauro Fiore (30:39):
I'm going to say Niners.
Bob Simon (30:41):
Kansas City is more dedicated. If you knew anybody from Kansas City, they're die-hard for the Chiefs, so for that reason, I'm rooting for the Chiefs, so whatever. How about you?
Ryan Stygar (30:49):
Wait, which one is dating Taylor Swift?
Mauro Fiore (30:53):
The guy from the Chiefs.
Ryan Stygar (30:54):
There we go. I think that guy just brought in how many hundreds of millions of extra fans for the Chiefs right there.
Bob Simon (30:59):
Oh, yes.
Ryan Stygar (31:00):
Don't mess with the Swiftie fan base, that's all I'm saying.
Mauro Fiore (31:02):
That's true.
Bob Simon (31:03):
He's a big music guy, so he loves the Swifties.
Ryan Stygar (31:06):
Yeah, if Taylor Swift is behind it, I don't know, there's some divine energy behind the Chiefs right now.
Bob Simon (31:10):
Well, according to some websites that I read, she's not even a real person, she's actually one of those reptile people.
Ryan Stygar (31:18):
The FBI plant theory?
Bob Simon (31:19):
Yeah.
Ryan Stygar (31:19):
They came out with a statement. They straight up said, "She is not an FBI plant," which I didn't think that had any credit until they said that.
Bob Simon (31:26):
Well, there's certain websites that'll tell you a lot of this.
Mauro Fiore (31:29):
My Uber driver this morning told me that Biden's been dead for a long time, and that the guy that they have is just an actor, and that he's part of the deep state.
Bob Simon (31:38):
Oh, I've heard this.
Mauro Fiore (31:40):
This guy was like Ukrainian, my Uber driver. It was pretty amazing that he was-
Bob Simon (31:44):
Wait, your Uber driver was Ukrainian?
Mauro Fiore (31:46):
Yes. Yes.
Bob Simon (31:48):
And he heard this?
Mauro Fiore (31:48):
Yup.
Bob Simon (31:50):
No, people actually believe these things. I always think we try a lot of cases, it's like my team is always, "What's the biggest conspiracy that has to be part of this case in order for the other side to win?"
Ryan Stygar (32:05):
Interesting.
Bob Simon (32:05):
How many people have to be in on this huge conspiracy?
Ryan Stygar (32:08):
Well, people, are we naturally in tune to sort of want to believe in the conspiracy? Is there part of us that we're susceptible to it because we want to believe?
Bob Simon (32:16):
Here's the psychology of it, people want to believe that they've come up with a solution or answer to the problem. So if they think enough that like, "I think UFOs exist," they will always come up with that conclusion and rational. So when you're picking a jury and you want to find people that are, if it's a liability case, you want to leave breadcrumbs for them to figure out the answer to it, and they will overcommit to it and sway the entire jury because that's their psychology of it.
Ryan Stygar (32:43):
Isn't that funny that if you leave little clues you're going to get more commitment, than if you come out, guns blazing, "I'm going to tell you who's liable."
Bob Simon (32:52):
I'm a big believer, and Gary Dordick taught us this, if it damages, what is the pain and suffering worth, or the injury. You're probably the person that's best suited to tell them that, so you can tell them that number, you can tell them, "I'm the expert in this. This is what I believe it is." On the liability side, let them figure it out for themselves, orchestrate it so they come up with a conclusion on their own. Imagine, if you are watching a movie and you think you know who the killer is, and it's a murder mystery, you're like, "Oh." You got that, right?
Ryan Stygar (33:22):
Yeah, and then the vindication you feel when you're right. So making it feel like it's their idea.
Bob Simon (33:27):
Yes.
Ryan Stygar (33:28):
That helps a lot too, because so many people don't want to be told what to believe.
Bob Simon (33:31):
Correct.
Ryan Stygar (33:31):
I think that's why we see-
Mauro Fiore (33:32):
Exactly what Gary says.
Ryan Stygar (33:33):
The conspiracy.
Bob Simon (33:34):
I know.
Ryan Stygar (33:35):
Because it's different from the mainstream. The mainstream is telling me what to believe all the time, but here is something a little more exciting that maybe could be true, and it feels like it's mine. Giving people ownership of the idea goes far.
Bob Simon (33:45):
So it depends on once you get to closing arguments in our cases, you've vetted out who is going to go down that path of, "I can believe any fucking thing somebody says." Two, I'm going to stay down the straight and narrow, and I'm going to be able to follow these little forensic clues, and win for you. But every case is different, he drives a lot of premises liability cases so it's different type of folks like those.
Mauro Fiore (34:09):
Yes, different. It's hard to find really unbiased jurors because there's a bias against trip and fall, slip and fall cases.
Ryan Stygar (34:19):
Why do you think that is?
Mauro Fiore (34:20):
It's just too much bullshit, too much propaganda from the insurance companies.
Bob Simon (34:24):
Every video you see on social media, "Oh, they slipped and fell on a banana peel."
Ryan Stygar (34:27):
The worst ones, it was a video on YouTube that went viral, was a man in a 7-Eleven, and the camera straight up caught him. He filled up a little cup of ice and then threw it down, looked left, looked right, and then just took a dive like he was a soccer player trying to draw a foul.
Mauro Fiore (34:41):
That's like 1.000 million the percent of people who get hurt on slip and falls. There are some of that, but for some reason, the media and the insurance company propaganda has really infiltrated the American public to think that when they hear, "Oh, someone slipped and fell at a supermarket," it's got to be some kind of a scam."
Ryan Stygar (35:00):
Well, it's an exposure bias, that's what makes the big headlines because it's the most outrageous salacious thing. Dude, I have the same problem in my practice with the EDD stuff. People get their unemployment checks to survive, but we get these really highly publicized stories about people fraudulently getting EDD benefits. There was a rapper who had a song, it was like EDD Card, and his music video was him making it rain fraudulent EDD.
Mauro Fiore (35:24):
Yeah, that was ODB.
Ryan Stygar (35:24):
Government issued cards that he fraudulently applied for.
Mauro Fiore (35:26):
That was ODB from Wu-Tang.
Ryan Stygar (35:28):
Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
Bob Simon (35:29):
Old Dirty Bastard did this?
Mauro Fiore (35:30):
ODB.
Bob Simon (35:30):
How do you know these things?
Ryan Stygar (35:30):
He made a music video of his fraudulence.
Mauro Fiore (35:33):
Yeah, and riding around in a-
Ryan Stygar (35:34):
The worst client of all time. The worst client of all time.
Mauro Fiore (35:36):
Riding around in a limousine, picking up his checks.
Bob Simon (35:39):
Oh, I missed that one.
Mauro Fiore (35:41):
You know ODB? Old Dirty Bastard.
Bob Simon (35:42):
I can probably do the entire Wu-Tang.
Mauro Fiore (35:44):
He's got the greatest line of all time in a rap song. I won't say it here.
Ryan Stygar (35:49):
ODB's dead, isn't he?
Mauro Fiore (35:50):
Yeah, he died.
Bob Simon (35:50):
He died a few years ago. All right, so Ryan, we're ending our tour across.
Ryan Stygar (35:55):
Okay.
Bob Simon (35:56):
I don't know where they made the pickle. This is Tennessee-
Mauro Fiore (35:58):
The pickle said like Ohio or something, someplace where you would think they'd make this shit.
Ryan Stygar (36:01):
I thought I saw six layer of hell somewhere on there.
Bob Simon (36:03):
No, nowhere in Dante's Inferno.
Mauro Fiore (36:06):
MO is Missouri?
Bob Simon (36:07):
Missouri.
Mauro Fiore (36:08):
Okay, Missouri.
Bob Simon (36:08):
That makes sense.
Ryan Stygar (36:09):
Also, a layer of hell.
Bob Simon (36:10):
Well, now we're going maybe Kansas City for the Super Bowl. But anyway, Ryan, we've toured Middle America here.
Ryan Stygar (36:15):
Yes, we did.
Bob Simon (36:17):
The workers' advocate that you are, we're very thankful for you. You're a voice for a lot of us that ... On social media, I can always repost you and get a lot of likes.
Ryan Stygar (36:26):
Happy to help.
Bob Simon (36:26):
Thank you very much. We have to always, at the end of the show, pick your bourbon of proof. Which one did you, whether it was the story or what you enjoyed drinking the most, and I'll let you exclude the pickle, just to be fair to the pickle, because I know that would be your choice, but you can pick [inaudible 00:36:43].
Ryan Stygar (36:42):
You know what? I got to tell you as a conversation starter, as a bonding experience, sometimes hardship brings a team together, and for that, I do like the pickles abilities to bring people together.
Mauro Fiore (36:53):
I'll never forget you or The Whicked Pickle.
Ryan Stygar (36:54):
I'm not going to forget that.
Mauro Fiore (36:54):
You're right, it is a bonding experience.
Ryan Stygar (36:55):
I'll tell you about different purposes, for bringing a team together, there we go.
Bob Simon (37:02):
Wow.
Ryan Stygar (37:02):
There we go.
Bob Simon (37:03):
The common enemy always brings you together.
Ryan Stygar (37:05):
It really does, doesn't it?
Bob Simon (37:06):
Yeah.
Ryan Stygar (37:07):
Yeah. But if I'm in a cabin by myself, just reflecting on life and what it means and the beauty, I'm taking Old Forester.
Bob Simon (37:13):
Nice.
Ryan Stygar (37:14):
I love the story. I love the taste.
Bob Simon (37:15):
Very good.
Ryan Stygar (37:17):
That was my first sip of whiskey in maybe a year.
Bob Simon (37:21):
Wow.
Ryan Stygar (37:22):
And to have that, maybe it was because it was the first sip and I've missed it, but that was some good stuff, the Old Forester.
Bob Simon (37:26):
Well, Ryan, thank you for coming on the show, and thank you, everybody, for listening and reviewing Bourbon of Proof. Thank my co-host Mauro, who's still the most viewed episode on YouTube, Mauro Fiore, because his stories are so outlandish you think they're not true, but I've actually seen some of them in person. Ryan, thank you for coming on, my friend.
Ryan Stygar (37:40):
Hey, thank you guys.