Law and Passion projects

Troy Giatras & Gene Nassif

HOST Bob Simon
FEATURED SPIRITS Nassif Family Reserve, City of Champions
DATE 7 July 2022

About This Episode

Another one from the Kentucky sessions. On this episode of Bourbon of Proof, Bob Simon is joined by Troy Giatras, a powerhouse attorney from West Virginia, Gene Nassif, whiskey distiller and lawyer, and the one and only Kristopher Hart. They talk law and life while sampling everything from a canned whiskey seltzer to a mysterious, unlabeled, duct-taped bottle of pure Iowa love.

Troy Giatras, The Giatras Law Firm

Gene Nassif, Nassif Family Reserve


Bob Simon (00:00):
Do you still practice?

Gene Nassif (00:02):

Bob Simon (00:02):
How much?

Gene Nassif (00:04):
40 hours a week.

Bob Simon (00:04):
40 hours a week?

Gene Nassif (00:04):
Bill. Bill.

Kristopher Hart (00:05):
So part-time. 40 hours a month.

Bob Simon (00:21):
Part-time loader.

Kristopher Hart (00:21):
Craft whiskey, for sure. It's very waxy.

Troy Giatras (00:23):
Did you say craft or cracked?

Kristopher Hart (00:25):

Gene Nassif (00:26):

Troy Giatras (00:27):
Oh. Do not want to bring cracked whiskey, man, to Bob's show.

Gene Nassif (00:30):
I want to try that, four years old.

Troy Giatras (00:36):
Nationwide, State Farm, Allstate, Geico, Farmers. They are in the litigation business. They sell insurance, and then they're in the litigation business, and they hire lawyers to do it here. But when you go and pierce into the company and go in against them, they hire their best lawyer.

Bob Simon (00:52):
All right. Welcome to this episode of Bourbon of Proof. We're coming, first of all, from Louisville, which is the home of bourbon. 96% of the world's bourbon comes from Louisville. Accurate, Kris?

Kristopher Hart (01:12):
It's a made up number, but yes.

Bob Simon (01:14):
All right. Kris Hart, who knows more about whiskey than anybody, or maybe Gene's going to probably try to challenge him, but Whisky Pete, Whisky Neat. Kris Hart's going to co-host today, and we have two special guests. Both are lawyers, both do completely different things. Gene Nassif here is now doing family law, right?

Gene Nassif (01:32):

Bob Simon (01:32):
But more importantly, he has his own distillery or two. Doing his own thing. We're going to do his whiskey first. Then we have Troy...

Troy Giatras (01:40):

Bob Simon (01:42):
Giatras, like mattress.

Troy Giatras (01:44):
Giatras. Yeah.

Bob Simon (01:45):
Giatras. We've already had a couple of episodes we've filmed, so we're feeling good. We got to get you guys caught up.

Kristopher Hart (01:49):
Speaking in cursive.

Troy Giatras (01:50):
Right, looking good.

Bob Simon (01:52):
Look good. But Troy comes to us from West Virginia. Well, first let's hear about this first one, Gene, because we want to get right to your stuff.

Gene Nassif (01:58):
Absolutely. Let's hit it first.

Gene Nassif (02:03):
This, Nassif family reserve. This was actually our second product that we put out two years ago. Well, a year and a half ago for my wedding. September of 2020, I released batch one of those.

Bob Simon (02:13):
September what of 2020?

Kristopher Hart (02:15):
Don't say 11.

Gene Nassif (02:16):
Oh, fuck. September 5th.

Bob Simon (02:17):
Oh, I was going to, I mean, his wife's probably watching.

Gene Nassif (02:19):
Yeah. But the cool thing about this is, I wanted an entry-level thing. My parents, grandparents couldn't handle 140 proof that I was bottling, so I thought to myself, "I want to do something..."

Bob Simon (02:29):
140 proof? Love this guy.

Kristopher Hart (02:30):

Gene Nassif (02:32):
I've done a lot-

Bob Simon (02:32):

Gene Nassif (02:33):
And I've got two here, hazmat over 140 proof. One right here.

Bob Simon (02:36):
Can't carry one on a plane, right?

Kristopher Hart (02:38):
That's correct.

Troy Giatras (02:38):
Right below meth.

Gene Nassif (02:40):
Correct. Basically, meth.

Bob Simon (02:42):
Kills COVID.

Gene Nassif (02:42):
You can run a car on it, too. So it's basically fuel. At this point, 26-year whiskey might be cheaper than-

Bob Simon (02:50):
Does it work with a flex capacitor?

Gene Nassif (02:50):
I don't know. It might be cheaper than gas before you know it, though. Think about that. Yeah, so wanted something that was entry-level. I wanted to explore blending straight whiskeys. At that point in time, a few people had done it, but it was typically perceived as being a lower level. A blended whiskey legally, can be grain-neutral spirit, along with bourbon or rye or whatever other whiskey. I wanted to make it premium. I wanted to use old light whiskey, bourbon and rye and create a new profile that was different than just a blended bourbon, blended rye, or even a light whiskey.

Bob Simon (03:24):
How long did it take you to come up with this?

Gene Nassif (03:26):
Drunken adventures. It was a few-

Kristopher Hart (03:28):
So, five minutes?

Gene Nassif (03:29):

Bob Simon (03:30):
Seriously? Is that 0.1?

Kristopher Hart (03:32):
Yeah. From 0.1 to 0.05. Yeah.

Gene Nassif (03:36):
I knew that the light whiskey provided the good finish, which you're probably tasting. I love the vanilla toffee finish. And then you add the rye for spice.

Bob Simon (03:44):
I thought you said this was light? It's 107 proof.

Gene Nassif (03:45):
Yeah. Light whiskey.

Kristopher Hart (03:47):
Yeah, that's light.

Gene Nassif (03:48):
Light whiskey. That started it all. Like I said, batch one was September 2020. We just hit batch 20. Really proud of that. We're now in 10 states.

Bob Simon (03:57):
We were drinking a lot of this on before we did the bourbon trail this week. I mean, this was very good. I drank a lot of this.

Gene Nassif (04:03):
It was humbling, too, that first off, we blew up in California. So people in California saying, "Oh my God, I've heard of you." I saw some guy had a Lambo and a bottle of my stuff in front of it. I was like, "Oh my God." And then the moment-

Bob Simon (04:15):
Did you know you were going to be the Lambo whiskey?

Gene Nassif (04:16):
I mean, I'm cool with that.

Bob Simon (04:18):
Are you?

Kristopher Hart (04:20):
It's a surreal feeling, right?

Gene Nassif (04:21):
It's beyond surreal. And the most humbling thing was Justin's House of Bourbon, and then one of the other guys locally here.

Kristopher Hart (04:29):
Started carrying it.

Gene Nassif (04:30):
Started carrying it.

Bob Simon (04:31):
Really? You're at Justin's?

Gene Nassif (04:32):
Yeah. I mean, we're all over Kentucky, but the point was it was humbling to be in Kentucky, whiskey country. Dude from Iowa, Lebanese family, no whiskey history.

Bob Simon (04:43):
But how did you make that pivot from you being a lawyer?

Gene Nassif (04:48):

Bob Simon (04:48):
Yeah, fuck it.

Gene Nassif (04:49):
I loved drinking whiskey. I loved the experience of it and I loved the craft of it and I loved everything about that. And I thought to myself, "One, if I can get into the market, I want to, and two, I know I can do it different than everybody else." And I think when we first started, when people look back, and I told this to you the other day, Jim Beam used to be the light whiskey was overlooked by everybody. They said nobody can sell light whiskey.

Bob Simon (05:15):
But what do you consider light whiskey?

Gene Nassif (05:16):
Light whiskey is distilled higher than bourbon or rye, so it's distilled between 160 and 190 proof. It's not vodka.

Kristopher Hart (05:22):
It's the difference between a rare steak and a well done steak. Vodka's a well done steak. Nobody wants to eat a well done steak.

Bob Simon (05:28):
I do. I like beef jerky.

Kristopher Hart (05:28):
You're a bad person. So rare whiskeys, that 160 to 190, it's basically medium on a whiskey scale. So as you distill, the higher the proof you go, the less of those flavors get cooked out of it. And Gene's actually one of the few people, and we actually know each other. We've been talking for years.

Bob Simon (05:48):
This is wild.

Kristopher Hart (05:49):
Because we both are in the same industry. He's one of the few people actually selling light whiskey in large amounts.

Gene Nassif (05:59):
Calling it. And these people at Beam, they would've laughed you out of the fucking room if you said to them, "I'm going to create a company."

Kristopher Hart (06:07):
You can't say "fuck."

Gene Nassif (06:07):

Bob Simon (06:08):
You can't say fuck.

Gene Nassif (06:09):
Start bottling light whiskey.

Bob Simon (06:11):
Can't say balls or anything like that.

Gene Nassif (06:12):
Or nuts?

Bob Simon (06:13):
No, you can say nuts.

Kristopher Hart (06:14):
You know on the radio you can't say butt hole, referring to your actual butt hole, but you can call someone a butt hole.

Gene Nassif (06:20):
Huh. That's odd.

Troy Giatras (06:21):
Way to plug in the...

Kristopher Hart (06:22):
Yeah. Okay, here we go.

Gene Nassif (06:27):
But like I said, the light whiskey, nobody said you could be successful with it. And then there was this article, Aaron Goldfarb. They were turning to light whiskey. He's a great guy. But I read his book and then he featured-

Kristopher Hart (06:43):
[inaudible 00:06:43].

Gene Nassif (06:42):
No, the whiskey guide or bourbon guide, one of his original books. And we'll get to it, but he had the Pappy jello shot, and that gave me some inspiration for some stuff we'll talk about. But light whiskey, nobody cared about.

Bob Simon (06:55):
Do you still practice?

Gene Nassif (06:56):

Bob Simon (06:57):
How much?

Gene Nassif (06:57):
40 hours a week.

Bob Simon (06:58):
40 hours a week?

Gene Nassif (06:59):
Bill. Bill.

Kristopher Hart (06:59):
So part-time. 40 hours a month.

Bob Simon (07:04):
Part-time loader.

Gene Nassif (07:04):
Bill 40 hours a week.

Bob Simon (07:05):
Can you hand me that Pittsburgh whiskey back there? Because I want to talk to Troy about this little-

Kristopher Hart (07:08):
This one?

Bob Simon (07:08):

Bob Simon (07:14):
Troy gave us, so interesting about Troy. So he's in West Virginia, but he went to law school in Pittsburgh and I'm from Pittsburgh. And your son is at Duquesne he's at Pittsburgh. Duquesne law.

Troy Giatras (07:23):
He is going to start he's at Duquesne undergrad and he is going to start Duquesne university law school.

Bob Simon (07:27):
One of my dad's very good friends is the Dean of law there. John Rego. And he's the funniest guy on the plane. He grew up hiding my little pigs I had as a kid and fucking with us, and I crack up. But yeah, this is the city of champions, bourbon. Have you ever had a Pittsburgh whiskey before, Kris?

Kristopher Hart (07:42):
Never. I was excited. We were talking about it off camera beforehand.

Troy Giatras (07:46):
I haven't had it either. I had my son pick it up because they make a bunch of other stuff. It's called wiggle whiskey. So they have a whole line. They just came out with a bourbon one and I thought-

Kristopher Hart (07:55):
I want to give wiggle whiskey a hard time, but there's something called whistle pig and it gets away with it. So.

Bob Simon (08:00):
That's true, man.

Bob Simon (08:01):
I mean, that's fair. I just hope it doesn't taste like IC light.

Troy Giatras (08:05):

Bob Simon (08:05):
Iron city's terrible.

Troy Giatras (08:06):
IC is regular.

Bob Simon (08:07):
Better. They came out with an IC twist at sometime when they flavored it. And it was worst.

Troy Giatras (08:12):
Shot and a beer back on the south side worked a lot better when it was-

Bob Simon (08:16):

Troy Giatras (08:17):
Did Jack's and other places.

Bob Simon (08:19):
Yeah. So Troy's a lawyer in West Virginia does a lot of consumer fraud protection stuff and just crazy. It's more relevant than ever right now, but you practice everywhere because you-

Troy Giatras (08:31):
Right. So for the first 20, some years did all personal injury work. You got to give me some special-

Kristopher Hart (08:37):
I'm listening. Cheers, buddy.

Troy Giatras (08:39):
No, no, no, no. You have to.

Troy Giatras (08:41):
Cheers. You're the experts on this one. The-

Kristopher Hart (08:44):
It smells terrible.

Kristopher Hart (08:44):
Smells like a pot still.

Troy Giatras (08:47):

Bob Simon (08:47):
I smell a lot of median household income of 30K iron

Troy Giatras (08:54):
Iron award.

Gene Nassif (08:54):
I smell the Monongahela and Allegheny. They should call it the confluence.

Troy Giatras (08:58):
Some iron ore.

Gene Nassif (08:59):
Heirloom corn and malt heavy. I think malts the secondary grain here, [inaudible 00:09:04] because in wheat-

Kristopher Hart (09:04):
Malts. Look at these guys. Secondary-

Gene Nassif (09:06):
Wheat's third. Yeah.

Bob Simon (09:07):
Look at them. Look at them. I just smell. I smelled Troy Paul Lamos. I can't even say, jockstraps.

Troy Giatras (09:11):
You know what?

Troy Giatras (09:13):
Yes. That's going to be good with time-

Kristopher Hart (09:16):
Guaranteed. That's a pot still.

Gene Nassif (09:17):
Yeah, but that's going to be good with time. You give that-

Kristopher Hart (09:19):
This is good.

Gene Nassif (09:20):
Four, six years.

Bob Simon (09:20):
Okay. It's got to be a little lighter though. I mean, it can't be high proof.

Gene Nassif (09:23):
It's two years.

Kristopher Hart (09:24):
That's a craft whiskey for sure. It's very waxy.

Troy Giatras (09:28):
Did you say craft or cracked?

Kristopher Hart (09:29):

Troy Giatras (09:31):
Craft. Yeah.

Kristopher Hart (09:31):

Troy Giatras (09:32):
Craft. I do not want to bring crack whiskey, man, to Bob's show.

Kristopher Hart (09:34):
I want to try that four years old.

Troy Giatras (09:36):
I know that much.

Kristopher Hart (09:36):
Dude, we don't drink a really good whiskey.

Bob Simon (09:38):
You do not get back out, but this is just special because it tells your story, like our story they're intertwined.

Troy Giatras (09:42):
That's right. So the first 26 years practiced regular-

Kristopher Hart (09:45):
First 26, is there a second? 26?

Troy Giatras (09:47):
I hope so. I need, I'm in my second act. So anyway, did all the personal injury work, accident work. Did it all like that. And then all of a sudden, hired a few people that came from the Attorney General's office.

Kristopher Hart (10:00):

Troy Giatras (10:01):
They were doing consumer protection, helping people out, wiping out debt, taking care of, gunning against credit card companies, banks, debt collectors. And now we're doing data breach and healthcare data breach. And it's taken us all across the country. So it's very nice.

Bob Simon (10:17):
Any time you go against the big boys that have billions of dollars and you start targeting them, dude, it's a different type. When I do product defraud cases like haunt, it's a different level. You have to think differently because they were... My wife's like, "Is this the time where you're going to start getting a bulletproof truck to roll around then?" Right? Because it gets scary. So are you at that?

Kristopher Hart (10:35):

Bob Simon (10:36):
No, because it is, you watch these shows Goliath and stuff. There's a lot of truth to it.

Troy Giatras (10:39):
Yep, Bob you're right. And that's true. It's one thing when not minimizing the acts and stuff. Nationwide, State Farm, Allstate, Geico Farmers, they are in the litigation business. They sell insurance and then they're in the litigation business and they hire lawyers to do it. But when you go and pierce into the company and go in against them, they hire their best lawyers, and there's no value they put on it. It's every dollar-

Kristopher Hart (11:06):
It's a blank check.

Bob Simon (11:07):
Blank check.

Bob Simon (11:08):
And they're like, fuck you. We're going to drive this all the way, because we're going to prove a point and drown you out.

Kristopher Hart (11:12):
You [inaudible 00:11:13] against these people.

Troy Giatras (11:13):
Well yes. Yes. Because at the end of the day, here's what happens.

Bob Simon (11:16):
I look all fancy. Of course you do. [inaudible 00:11:20]. Wait, can you make a scarf an Ascot? When is a scarf-

Troy Giatras (11:24):
No, I cannot. I picked this up in Italy. So-

Bob Simon (11:26):
Well you travel to Italy a lot.

Troy Giatras (11:28):
I do. I'm getting ready to leave next week.

Kristopher Hart (11:30):
Are you a big wine guy?

Kristopher Hart (11:31):
You have to be.

Troy Giatras (11:33):
Yes. I like wine, but not a lot of it because it makes me sleepy. Oh, so you know what, I just drink.

Bob Simon (11:39):
Do you know what Kris's favorite wine is?

Troy Giatras (11:42):
Where's the bourbon?

Troy Giatras (11:47):
But that's the fun thing about it, is we moved ourself from talking about insurance adjusters to risk managers and companies who are not normally used to seeing six jurors or 12 jurors. They don't see the jurors. They don't want to see-

Kristopher Hart (12:02):
It's normally a settle.

Troy Giatras (12:04):
They don't want to see, literally a jury panel. So if you can bring them there. So first 20, some years of trying cases, next thing you know, you're dealing with lawyers who are not trying cases, that's motions. And next thing you know, you're like, let's go to trial and you have a whole different attitude. The same way I heard you talking earlier on a couple cats and that was, "Hey, I'll just go in there and knock them out."

Bob Simon (12:24):
Then I'll give a shit.

Troy Giatras (12:25):
You're like, well we can't get the deposition taken. You're like-

Bob Simon (12:27):
Don't care.

Troy Giatras (12:27):
You know what? I'll do it at trial. Yeah. I'll take this deposition to trial.

Bob Simon (12:30):

Bob Simon (12:31):
That's the fear factor is like, well, are you serious? You'll do that, yeah. Don't give a shit. I'll pick the jury on a lunch break. I'll deposed your expert here.

Troy Giatras (12:38):
I tried, we still try, everyone in my firm tries criminal cases.

Bob Simon (12:42):

Troy Giatras (12:42):
For the last 20, some years, everybody, murder cases, everything. Because it gives you the ability because when they say I'll give you an extension of time in criminal cases, the judge will say, "Well, Mr Giatras, why don't you read this over? And we'll start tomorrow." You'll read a report, an expert's report. You get one day's notice on a criminal case. On a civil case. They're like, "I need to have..." The defense goes, "I need to have 45 days, judge." And you're like, "Hey look, they just gave me this thing. Let's go and do it." But that being on your feet like you are, and like you are in family law.

Gene Nassif (13:15):
We were talking about that. The one thing. So nowadays, especially in Iowa, plaintiffs work, you're not seeing the courtroom often. And I started doing family law, first off thought I was going to hate it. Ended up loving it. But I've been in front of a judge. I've been in front of, I mean, I've been testimony and cross and I-

Bob Simon (13:35):
Don't think I have the heart for family law.

Gene Nassif (13:37):
You have to separate yourself. If you can separate yourself from the people you're representing,

Bob Simon (13:42):
We adopted our daughter. And it was a seamless process and I've heard some stories, whenever this stuff is fought. I cannot imagine that being contested.

Gene Nassif (13:49):
And abuse victims. I mean-

Troy Giatras (13:52):
It's easier to do criminal work. When I say that it's easier on the mind because-

Bob Simon (13:56):
No way.

Troy Giatras (13:57):
It is easier on the mind in representation. The divorce, family law is very traumatic.

Gene Nassif (14:04):
I feel-

Bob Simon (14:05):
That's why you're doing whiskey bro.

Kristopher Hart (14:07):
Wait, what's the best? If you had a preference, do you prefer defending? Do you prefer criminal? Do you prefer family?

Bob Simon (14:15):
I will never defend a corporation.

Troy Giatras (14:17):

Bob Simon (14:17):
I will.

Kristopher Hart (14:18):
No, you want to prosecute? You want to go after?

Bob Simon (14:21):
Yeah. I go after, we go after the bad guys-

Kristopher Hart (14:21):
David and Goliath, you prefer to David?

Bob Simon (14:23):
Yes, that's it. That's all I've ever done. And that's all these guys do. Same.

Troy Giatras (14:26):
Since day one, since my family, literally mother and father came over from different countries. We started a restaurant. I've worked in a restaurant all my life and we still have it, 103 years.

Bob Simon (14:37):
So was it gyro or gyro? Well, it's Greek. We got to know.

Troy Giatras (14:41):
You know what we were selling? As most Greeks, we had a restaurant and-

Bob Simon (14:44):
Mostly uncircumcised-

Troy Giatras (14:45):
And we had, we were selling wieners, man. We were selling hot dogs, and that we still do it 103 years later in Cumberland, Maryland. We still have it going on. So-

Bob Simon (14:56):
Yeah, Cumberland. I went to undergrad in DC. One of my good friends lived in Cumberland. So we were out there a lot. I never told you that I'm in Cumberland a lot, man.

Troy Giatras (15:03):
We still have a restaurant there. I mean it's 103 years, my brother. And he's a big Steelers. He had a big ring made of three river stadium.

Bob Simon (15:10):

Troy Giatras (15:10):
Yeah. He's oh-

Bob Simon (15:11):
I got one of the Pittsburgh bridges here.

Kristopher Hart (15:14):
You know, that doesn't exist much anymore. This-

Bob Simon (15:17):
What, tattoos?

Kristopher Hart (15:19):
These ancestral restaurants.

Troy Giatras (15:20):

Kristopher Hart (15:21):
And, you go to the New England states. There are literally restaurants and bars that have been there over a hundred years. You go anywhere else in the country. And it's a couple decades at most. And most of it are chains, right? In Houston, Papa's restaurants. Sure. Okay. It's been around 20, 30 years, but there's no, this is my grandmother, family heritage.

Bob Simon (15:40):
So, how is that in the whiskey realm? Their family, he's got his family reserve right there.

Kristopher Hart (15:46):
Yeah, but it started with him, right.

Bob Simon (15:47):
It started with you. But is there that blow back with, in the whiskey world where there's the big conglomerates and-

Kristopher Hart (15:52):
There's all the conglomerates-

Bob Simon (15:53):
Like ConAgra.

Kristopher Hart (15:54):
Yes. All of the family heritage, legacy distillers are owned by major corporations now. There were no small mom and pops, haven't been picked up yet.

Gene Nassif (16:03):
Heaven Hill, technically. They're owned by the same family. Shapiras.

Kristopher Hart (16:07):
Yeah, but it's a big machine right there.

Troy Giatras (16:10):
Nice family.

Gene Nassif (16:11):
I mean, they became-

Kristopher Hart (16:13):
Different Shapiras-

Gene Nassif (16:15):
Who was the other ones? Lux Row. That was another one. Don Lux. He did some weird stuff.

Kristopher Hart (16:21):
They sold out.

Gene Nassif (16:22):
They sold to MGP. Yeah.

Bob Simon (16:23):
They sold. You said sold out.

Kristopher Hart (16:25):
Well, I mean, sorry, adjustment. [inaudible 00:16:28].

Gene Nassif (16:29):
Speaking of, want to hear something now and people probably aren't going to like it. Do you know who was the second highest bidder on Bardstown Brewing company?

Kristopher Hart (16:37):

Gene Nassif (16:38):

Kristopher Hart (16:39):
Yeah. Didn't they just buy, they bought someone recently.

Gene Nassif (16:42):
They bought Lux Row. Yeah. That's

Kristopher Hart (16:44):
Lux Row. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gene Nassif (16:46):
They were the second highest bidder.

Kristopher Hart (16:47):
Fired up-

Gene Nassif (16:47):
And they were down the street.

Troy Giatras (16:49):
We were just at Bardstown distillery yesterday.

Gene Nassif (16:51):

Troy Giatras (16:52):
Interesting place.

Gene Nassif (16:53):
Oh beautiful.

Kristopher Hart (16:54):
Oh, beautiful place.

Gene Nassif (16:54):
And they've got all the old whiskeys too.

Kristopher Hart (16:55):
Billions of dollars were put, that place is gorgeous.

Gene Nassif (16:58):
They were no expense... Well, not a billion.

Kristopher Hart (17:01):
Well, fair expense.

Gene Nassif (17:02):
About half of that. So that's also probably off the record.

Troy Giatras (17:05):
Super high tech place.

Kristopher Hart (17:07):
Yes. Correct.

Troy Giatras (17:08):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a new thing happening.

Kristopher Hart (17:10):
There's an old saying. And I hate to shit on Kentucky, but the saying is the best Kentucky bourbon's in the past, the best craft whiskey or Texas whiskeys in the future.

Troy Giatras (17:21):

Kristopher Hart (17:21):
Everyone in the craft industry like these guys, they're getting better and better with every release. They're learning, they're adjusting. Whereas Kentucky's having such a hard time keeping up with everything that they are... everything. They're cutting corners a little bit. So things are getting incrementally worse and worse with each new Kentucky release. Whereas the craft industry is getting incrementally better.

Troy Giatras (17:43):
Like with craft beer, bud and millet cores, all of them didn't want to be involved. Until craft got really sexy.

Kristopher Hart (17:51):
Are they buying up craft?

Troy Giatras (17:52):
And now, yeah. They're like, "Hey, we want in, we want to buy it, and they'll pay you.

Gene Nassif (17:55):
Same thing's happening in whiskey. Woodinville is one I love. I don't know what your thoughts are on.

Kristopher Hart (18:00):
No, they're great.

Gene Nassif (18:01):
I think they're amazing. And-

Kristopher Hart (18:02):
I mean, slow down, but go ahead.

Gene Nassif (18:04):
You know what? I truly think bottle Woodinville against anything in Kentucky. I would rather take the Woodinville.

Kristopher Hart (18:10):
What I'm saying-

Gene Nassif (18:11):
Under 10 years, under 10 years. So I really like Woodinville and there's a lot of people, traditionally it's got to be distilled in Kentucky and people would go to some bum, that was distilling in Kentucky. And I mean that respectfully, somebody that's a no name and say, "I want my whiskey distilled. So I can say it was distilled in Kentucky." Now I'll tell you that the quality level is so much higher, but it's not in the state of Kentucky, who cares. And I'm just thinking to myself, if we focused on the quality of the master distiller, the facility, and all that, it is in Kentucky, but it's also everywhere else.

Kristopher Hart (18:45):
I know someone who just bought into a major Kentucky operation, 10,000 barrels. It's all pot still and barrel entry proof in a hundred.

Gene Nassif (18:57):
That's probably really good.

Kristopher Hart (18:59):
It's the opposite.

Gene Nassif (18:59):

Kristopher Hart (19:00):
Everything about that said red flag to me, everything's bad.

Gene Nassif (19:03):
Oh, no. See, this is stuff that we can fight about. For me, barrel entry proof.

Kristopher Hart (19:07):
We might have our first fight on a fucking show.

Troy Giatras (19:10):
Is it true when they say the best way to make a million dollars in the whiskey business is to start with two?

Kristopher Hart (19:18):
Oh yes.

Troy Giatras (19:18):
And the best way to make a million dollars in the vodka business is to hire marketing company.

Kristopher Hart (19:23):
Correct. It's all market. You're hitting the nail on the head. Tito's isn't even made in Texas. Yep. And it's the number one selling in Texas.

Troy Giatras (19:29):
No, no, it is.

Gene Nassif (19:29):
No it's not.

Troy Giatras (19:30):
It should be.

Kristopher Hart (19:31):
It's distilled the last time in Texas, we throw it through the state, whatever.

Troy Giatras (19:36):
I feel like you have the case, misrepresentation.

Gene Nassif (19:39):
You want to talk about that?

Kristopher Hart (19:40):
Let's talk about Templeton.

Gene Nassif (19:42):
Well, we can tell the story pretty quick. Templeton. Obviously, they were, and I'm still friends with both of the owners, old owner and new owner. [inaudible 00:19:52] No, I mean, it's a cool story.

Kristopher Hart (19:53):
I'll make that happen.

Gene Nassif (19:54):
No, no, no. The cool thing is, or the odd thing is they had a real story. Real story was there was bootlegging in Iowa and they wanted to tell the story. And it was one of the first people to actually tell a real bootlegging story. Problem was, they were going to source whiskey from other people and say that this was similar recipe as the actual stuff. It wasn't.

Kristopher Hart (20:15):
Just to add some color here. So you've got a legacy family that tells the story on the bottle of old recipe, a hundred years old, et cetera, et cetera. But really what they were doing was sourcing from a major factory out of Indiana, called MGP, and everyone buys.

Gene Nassif (20:32):
What? We got some duct tape.

Kristopher Hart (20:33):
Yeah. Everyone buys from MGP. I buy from-

Bob Simon (20:37):
what is MGP? You said it-

Kristopher Hart (20:38):
Midwestern Grain Products. So MGPI, Midwestern Grain Products of Indiana, also known as what was the other name they used to go by?

Gene Nassif (20:47):
They're now Squibb and something.

Kristopher Hart (20:49):
Yeah. They've changed their name.

Gene Nassif (20:50):
They've changed their name a bunch. They were Seagram's and-

Bob Simon (20:51):
Corporate deniability, correct?

Troy Giatras (20:53):
Correct. Owners of the world.

Kristopher Hart (20:54):
They're basically the largest factory that everyone orders from. A bullet rise from them. I can give you a thousand.

Gene Nassif (21:00):
Dickel rye, my stuff, even.

Kristopher Hart (21:02):
So there was a class action lawsuit where they sued Templeton and said, "Look, you are presenting this as a family recipe thing." Class actions where you can literally provide the receipt or an empty bottle and you'd receive it 25 bucks or something.

Gene Nassif (21:15):
Yeah. The problem too is they never put distilled in Indiana until after the lawsuit.

Kristopher Hart (21:19):
Yeah, that's right.

Gene Nassif (21:20):
That was a problem.

Kristopher Hart (21:20):
And that's a requirement by law. If it's an out-of-state distillation, if I'm bottling in Texas, I have to say on the bottle, it's distilled in that other state.

Bob Simon (21:28):
What are the damages? How do you do something like that? Because you do these cases.

Troy Giatras (21:31):
Quantification's hard. Sometimes you have data breach where personal information is disclosed, your medical records. You have something of that nature. Even a misrepresentation. It goes back into again. What's your gut? When you said you went from 0.10, to 0.5 and you're drinking. You're thinking at that time, you have-

Bob Simon (21:50):
Drinking and thinking, look at that. There's a good tagline. There we go.

Troy Giatras (21:57):
That's a fifth armed of, duty breach, causation, damage, thinking and drinking. And so you have that going on-

Bob Simon (22:02):

Troy Giatras (22:02):
And you have to put this together and you say, "Hey, what's the value?" You build it up through some matrix on your own with some lower level players, you build it up. Next thing you know, when somebody big comes in and hits you and says, "You don't have a damage model." You're like, "Yeah, I do. Watch this." I built it up myself.

Kristopher Hart (22:20):
Think about the fact that they were doing 50 to a hundred thousand cases.

Gene Nassif (22:24):
They were a big, big company.

Kristopher Hart (22:25):
A year. They were a huge company.

Troy Giatras (22:26):
And you take somebody like yourself and you. Yep. And Bob, and you say, what's it matter to you whether it's placed somewhere? You're like that matters because I'm a drinker.

Bob Simon (22:34):
You build it for this story.

Kristopher Hart (22:35):
It's misleading.

Troy Giatras (22:36):
It's misleading. I care about it. Maybe not Fred or Joe or Sally down the street doesn't care. But they care about something else.

Gene Nassif (22:43):
The funny side story about that is they were bottling the MGP rye before MGP generally became the popular thing and looking back people like you and I. People actually go after the brands that are bottling MGP distillate. So, if they actually did say that at the right time and were transparent, they would've probably seen larger sales growth because when MGP had their boom, when everybody started going after all the bottlers, like me, you that had MGP.

Kristopher Hart (23:08):
Smoke Wagon. They're very popular.

Gene Nassif (23:10):
They blew up after the lawsuit. After the lawsuit, they blew up. So it's now a selling point. So it's hilarious.

Bob Simon (23:17):
So what do they have to pay in that lawsuit to, I assume it's settled. I mean.

Gene Nassif (23:21):
It's settled. And then-

Kristopher Hart (23:23):
I don't know the hard numbers-

Gene Nassif (23:24):
One of the owners left. I don't know the numbers either, but one of the owners left, they made out just fine. But the cool thing is, that family that we were talking about, the bootleggers-

Kristopher Hart (23:34):
The actual history?

Gene Nassif (23:35):
The actual history in Templeton, Iowa, I live about an hour away and they still bootleg to this day.

Kristopher Hart (23:40):
And that's this-

Gene Nassif (23:42):
Their signatures is the duct tape along the top-

Kristopher Hart (23:54):
What the fuck dude.

Gene Nassif (23:54):
[inaudible 00:23:54].

Kristopher Hart (23:54):
Now we got to have-

Gene Nassif (23:54):
The real bootleg recipe is about 70%-

Kristopher Hart (23:57):
If I go blind, what happens?

Gene Nassif (23:58):
No, no. You won't go blind-

Troy Giatras (24:00):
One eye goes dead.

Kristopher Hart (24:02):
If you go blind, we have, I know a couple lawyers.

Bob Simon (24:05):
Oh my god.

Gene Nassif (24:08):
[inaudible 00:24:08] It's not high proof. It's only about 80-

Bob Simon (24:09):
My dad used to tell me if you jerk off too much, you go blind. And I was like, "Dad, I'm over here."

Bob Simon (24:14):
There you go.

Kristopher Hart (24:18):
I love it, because he's off camera. Where is he at?

Bob Simon (24:19):
Yeah, my dad's... I don't know. He must be creeping somewhere. Oh god, guys. We're drinking bootleg-

Gene Nassif (24:24):
It's not high proof.

Kristopher Hart (24:25):
It's moonshine.

Gene Nassif (24:26):
Well, it's not even moon... well, it's moonshine but, the cool thing about the real recipe is, it's mostly sugar. Back in the day, sugar was a lot easier to get a hold of-

Kristopher Hart (24:34):
This is good!

Gene Nassif (24:34):
And it didn't raise-

Kristopher Hart (24:36):
Real light.

Troy Giatras (24:37):
But not light like you were saying, but light hot. This is a light drink.

Bob Simon (24:41):
That's why you guys confuse me, man. When you're saying you do the light shit-

Kristopher Hart (24:43):
Well, there's some legal terms. I'll give you a lesson one day on legal terms-

Bob Simon (24:49):
Yeah, please.

Kristopher Hart (24:50):
But yeah, it's very light and soft-

Gene Nassif (24:51):
It's a rum.

Kristopher Hart (24:52):
Yeah, it's rum?

Gene Nassif (24:53):
Well technically, it's a rum. So, sugar mash, about 70% sugar, and then they add rye, for flavoring. But they steep it. They don't actually have it in there. I think that's technically a rum.

Kristopher Hart (25:05):
Rum isn't as defined. We can get lucky. In America, bourbon was defined early on as an American product.

Bob Simon (25:15):
Do they make rum with corn? Do they do that?

Kristopher Hart (25:17):

Gene Nassif (25:18):
Sugar, molasses.

Kristopher Hart (25:19):
Sugar, molasses, or fresh cane juice.

Kristopher Hart (25:23):
But I don't think it's legally defined, other than the fact that it comes from sugar. So this is in America.

Gene Nassif (25:28):
Technically, a rum I guess. And the rye would be spice. But this is 80, 86 proof. It's not high proof.

Bob Simon (25:35):
No, this is good. But do you believe in that? I have an old thing where I truly believe they call them spirits for a reason. You can drink something, if it speaks to you, that's your jam. So I've always had the whiskey thing. That was my favorite. I tried rums. I drank rum one time in college, ended up driving from DC to fucking New Orleans for Mardi Gras one time, straight. It was, I don't remember the drive. That was very dangerous. But it was a good time, but that's what rum did to me.

Gene Nassif (26:02):
I'm surprised your social media handle isn't-

Kristopher Hart (26:06):
That's what rum did to me.

Bob Simon (26:09):
It was Malibu rum too. It wasn't, but I just wanted to see your reaction.

Kristopher Hart (26:14):

Kristopher Hart (26:15):
I'm surprised your social media handle isn't bourbonfunbob-

Bob Simon (26:19):
That would've been good.

Kristopher Hart (26:21):
You have been this whiskey obsessed... okay, I'll give you. So, I used to work in corporate litigation for years. There was an HR department right? You guys know what those are.

Bob Simon (26:32):
You know what HR is in our office? Semi fisher. Who was the one that was singing last night?

Kristopher Hart (26:39):
He's the one. Me and him got IV drips together this morning. He's a great guy. But there was these boundaries. We're very serious, we're very professional. And there is this change when you move to the spirit side of the business. We work in a very serious distillery operation, which requires us to drink every day. So, there's this weird thing where it's like, I drink. My doctor's like, "How many drinks a week do you have?" I'm like, a week or per day?

Gene Nassif (27:12):
What's the question?

Kristopher Hart (27:14):
But here's the thing. I'll tell you the truth. I'll tell you the real answer, but don't judge me, and understand that it's part of the job. And I forget my point here, but-

Troy Giatras (27:25):
That's 0.5.

Kristopher Hart (27:28):
That's right. Bourbon fun bottle. You guys give this perception of where we are a professional operator, but also we like to enjoy ourselves.

Bob Simon (27:36):
But you should always enjoy yourself, whatever you do, when you're at work, you should enjoy it. We talk about this, and we love life. You can practice law, love life, do your side hustle, do whatever you want. But funny story about my dad, and this same question. How much do you drink per week? My dad had the same GP, general practitioner. And we have the same name, Robert Terrance Simon. So we come in, date of birth difference. We have the same GP.

Bob Simon (28:00):
So we were in for the same day, for a physical. And the doctor asked us the same question. How many drinks do you have per week? And both of us said-

Kristopher Hart (28:06):
Who's asking?

Bob Simon (28:07):
No, it was this. Because you fill it out first, a questionnaire. And it was like zero to 40.

Bob Simon (28:15):
His answer was something similar. So they go in and they have to ask you the question. Well, I could have zero drinks in a week, could have 40. It just depends where I am. And my dad answered the same fucking thing.

Troy Giatras (28:27):
Now, how long do you define a week? Are you talking about over a day, a week? That'd be a day for me.

Bob Simon (28:34):
Jupiter week. What's a Jupiter week?

Kristopher Hart (28:38):
It's like three months.

Bob Simon (28:44):

Troy Giatras (28:44):
You want a four hour week. You're like, the first four hours. That was a week already. As soon as you show up in the office, on Monday-

Bob Simon (28:49):
I'm using Jupiter week.

Kristopher Hart (28:51):
Yeah, it's good. I don't do fast food. I don't do sodas. I don't do those things-

Troy Giatras (28:57):
[inaudible 00:28:57].

Kristopher Hart (28:57):
However, I won't do-

Troy Giatras (28:59):
You can do a cleanse.

Kristopher Hart (29:02):
But I'll have a morning beer.

Troy Giatras (29:04):

Kristopher Hart (29:04):
A great breakfast.

Bob Simon (29:05):
Dude, he had a beer before he shot all these episodes.

Gene Nassif (29:08):
Oh my god.

Bob Simon (29:08):
True story.

Kristopher Hart (29:09):
Yeah, and it's great for weight loss, by the way. Replace food with just alcohol, you lose weight like crazy.

Gene Nassif (29:14):
I don't drink for the most part, Monday through Friday-

Troy Giatras (29:17):

Gene Nassif (29:18):
And I run a distillery, yeah.

Troy Giatras (29:21):
[inaudible 00:29:21] in a while.

Bob Simon (29:22):
I think you need to change your philosophy on life, Gene.

Gene Nassif (29:25):
I don't know how much time we have left, but I'm curious what this is. Okay.

Bob Simon (29:28):
A little bit of this first. [inaudible 00:29:31].

Gene Nassif (29:29):
Oh fuck.

Bob Simon (29:32):
Let's shoot that, and we got to do the seltzer.

Gene Nassif (29:34):
We're issuing a $500 secondary market [inaudible 00:29:39]. Because, why not, here.

Troy Giatras (29:42):
Don't do a heavy pour. 35.

Kristopher Hart (29:44):
Super light. Light again. What are you talking about light?

Gene Nassif (29:49):
This is a 24 to 37 year old armagnac.

Kristopher Hart (29:51):
Oh man, this smells amazing.

Gene Nassif (29:53):
It's made with grapes. Similar to your cognac, but the reason why I sourced it from armagnac region-

Kristopher Hart (30:00):
There's color on this too.

Gene Nassif (30:01):
Yup. It is-

Bob Simon (30:03):
This looks major. I do a lot of dungeons and dragons-

Gene Nassif (30:06):
You know what? It reminds me a lot of the old-

Bob Simon (30:08):
You could get a dragon for that bottle.

Gene Nassif (30:09):
Old KBD stuff. It's got that cinnamon to it.

Kristopher Hart (30:12):
It actually says-

Gene Nassif (30:12):
It's very oaky. Don't get me wrong. Orthodox, Christian. Lebanese.

Kristopher Hart (30:18):
Orthodox Christian.

Bob Simon (30:19):
I don't know the difference. Because all religion is the same to you.

Gene Nassif (30:23):
More Jesus. It's a difference.

Troy Giatras (30:25):
I think Johnny Cash talked about that.

Gene Nassif (30:30):
But yeah, this is a little oakier, but just dense.

Kristopher Hart (30:34):
It's light too. It's not cast strained?

Gene Nassif (30:36):
No, it's cast.

Bob Simon (30:37):
Man, you insulted him. You should apologize.

Kristopher Hart (30:39):
It drinks like 45. It drinks very underproof.

Gene Nassif (30:43):
And don't you like how, just earthy, oak-

Bob Simon (30:46):
This is definitely way different than everything we've had.

Kristopher Hart (30:48):
It's got a guava note to it.

Bob Simon (30:49):

Kristopher Hart (30:51):
Indoor pool. Have you ever smelled an indoor pool-

Bob Simon (30:55):
Indoor pool's chlorine.

Kristopher Hart (30:56):
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Simon (30:58):
And herpes.

Gene Nassif (30:58):
And do you know the same notes, I get on all KBDs? I get a lot of the same profiles as the really old KBDs.

Bob Simon (31:06):

Kristopher Hart (31:07):
I love how every interview's gotten better and better.

Bob Simon (31:10):
Don't ask.

Kristopher Hart (31:10):
It's going to devolve. Last interview we're just going to be like, do you like all?

Bob Simon (31:16):
We think it's gotten better. Oh, let's do the seltzer. Talk about this.

Gene Nassif (31:22):
All right. This is a funny story. Aaron Goldfarb, first, he wrote a book, Hacking Whiskey. That was what it was. Hacking Whiskey, great book. And I read that book before I even had a brand.

Bob Simon (31:34):
Is this a scratch and sniff book? How big is it?

Gene Nassif (31:37):
It's a great book, and he's a wonderful writer. One of the best whiskey writers, period. And so, I read his book, and I wanted to get into whiskey and all that. And one of the chapters in the book was, he did Pappy Van Winkle, but he made it into jello shots, okay.

Bob Simon (31:51):
Why do you-

Gene Nassif (31:52):
Perception. It's perception. Everybody else in this whiskey world, I told you, earlier this week, a guy got-

Bob Simon (31:59):

Gene Nassif (31:59):
Yeah, a whiskey YouTuber, that's one of the biggest YouTubers, got shit for swirling a glass of 27 year old Redbreast too hard. It's going to fracture the whiskey. Shut the fuck up. Fuck you. So here's what happened.

Kristopher Hart (32:12):
It's over the top. Lot of pop and serve-

Gene Nassif (32:14):
What I wanted to do, to change the game and to make a statement, is the sunk shelves, in Iowa. It's 26 year old whiskey that I sourced. And I put it in a seltzer.

Kristopher Hart (32:24):

Bob Simon (32:25):
You're going to piss people off-

Kristopher Hart (32:26):
You basically did a pappy and coke in a can.

Gene Nassif (32:29):
I wanted to make a statement about the industry. You can't take it seriously. You need to enjoy it while you've got it. And the stories told, they're not the bottles on the shelf that you're flipping. It's the stories you tell with your friends-

Kristopher Hart (32:42):
And you have a little fun when-

Gene Nassif (32:43):
So this is a, more or less, a hard seltzer, but it's supposed to taste like an old fashioned. It's with 26 year old Black Velvet of all things.

Kristopher Hart (32:54):
Oh. This is my-

Bob Simon (32:54):
I love this shit, man.

Troy Giatras (32:57):
[inaudible 00:32:57].

Gene Nassif (32:57):
It's supposed to be funny.

Bob Simon (32:59):
But also, I think it tastes really good, for what it is.

Kristopher Hart (33:01):
Oh, it smells great.

Gene Nassif (33:03):
There. It's not high alcohol. It's 10%. In Iowa, we've got caps on-

Kristopher Hart (33:09):
He loves it.

Troy Giatras (33:10):
I want to get some of that other stuff going on. The bottle that's not open yet.

Bob Simon (33:12):
It's got a rye spice to it.

Gene Nassif (33:14):
Yup. Yeah, it's not supposed to be taken seriously. But it's just-

Troy Giatras (33:18):
It's fantastic.

Gene Nassif (33:19):
Guess how much it is, for a four pack?

Troy Giatras (33:20):
A dollar.

Bob Simon (33:21):
A thousand dollars.

Gene Nassif (33:22):
No, nine bucks.

Bob Simon (33:24):
I guessed wrong.

Kristopher Hart (33:25):
Bob's concept of money is a little skewed.

Bob Simon (33:28):
A little bit. Do you watch that show, Succession?

Gene Nassif (33:32):
Yeah, it's a fantastic-

Bob Simon (33:33):
I hated it. I hated it at first, because I hate the characters. And then, Succession comes in, and one of the things they say, he asks. Hey son, how much does a gallon of milk cost? These kids had no fucking idea, right. $2000, I don't know. So, same shit.

Troy Giatras (33:46):
My 14 year old. He's like, "Hey dad, you should make some money." He goes, "You think you can afford this? It costs $800." I'm like, I don't know. And he goes, "Well, what do you make, $3000 a year?" And a week later, he was like, "What do you make, $30 million dollars a year?" I'm like, "No, neither of these. What are you doing?" He goes, "I want this pair of Yeezys." I'm like, "No, you can't have them."

Gene Nassif (34:10):
Let me call Kanye myself. Let me just call him up.

Bob Simon (34:13):
I think the commonality is, everybody here, we all grew up here without any money-

Gene Nassif (34:16):
No money.

Bob Simon (34:17):
We were all broke as fuck, drinking anything... I was drinking Mad Dog 20/20. Anything you could get your hands on.

Troy Giatras (34:23):
MD 20/20.

Kristopher Hart (34:23):
Do you remember doing beer math at 19? I'm sorry, 21.

Bob Simon (34:27):
Unless you're in West Virginia. West Virginia was an 18 for a while, so [inaudible 00:34:31]. And Pittsburgh was a 45 minute drive.

Troy Giatras (34:35):
Yeah well, and then had state stores in Pennsylvania. All states, when you went-

Bob Simon (34:38):
We can't get booze on Sundays.

Troy Giatras (34:40):
Yes. You had three vodkas, three... in state stores in Pennsylvania. Three bourbons. They had a sign that had vodka. These three kinds, because that's all the ABCC would sell. Boom, vodka, bourbon, scotch. That's three kinds. And it would be on a shelf, out of Russia. Now, in Maryland, I did not know until I went... I was in Maryland all my life. And walk in and all these promos, cups and stuff. Now all of a sudden, you walked in Pennsylvania, to the state store. You're like, holy moly. There's only three choices. So, I brought from my fraternity. [inaudible 00:35:15]. I used to bring all this whiskey, over to Pennsylvania for our fraternity parties, because there was a heck of a price on the state store.

Troy Giatras (35:26):
In Maryland, everything, it was called discount liquors. They discount everything, man.

Kristopher Hart (35:30):
We have bottles that are going to Canada. In Texas, they're 60. In Canada, they're 120.

Troy Giatras (35:35):

Kristopher Hart (35:36):
You can make a lot of money-

Bob Simon (35:37):
Yeah, you hosers. Let's cheers it, because this is Bourbon of Proof. So Gene, Troy, what is your Bourbon of Proof. Where do you like to live?

Troy Giatras (35:44):
Bob Simon, California.

Bob Simon (35:46):
Now I'm in California. Dude, I love California.

Troy Giatras (35:49):
I love it. I'm trying to tell my sons, both of them. Go west, young man. Go west. And I will follow.

Gene Nassif (35:55):
I'm going to remain in the heartland.

Kristopher Hart (35:57):
That's very nice.

Gene Nassif (35:57):
Fuck man, I love.

Kristopher Hart (35:57):
You've done well.

Troy Giatras (35:58):
Thank you, my friend.

Kristopher Hart (35:59):
You know what, you've done well.

Troy Giatras (36:00):
And here's the key. This whole thing, we used to all do a long time ago. Around, without all this, just talking and BSing in a bar or-

Bob Simon (36:11):
Best time of your life. Best time.

Troy Giatras (36:12):
What you've done, seriously. You've taken this now, the old bar in the corner. A bunch of lawyers talking. You've taken it, and put it nationally. And you have expanded it-

Bob Simon (36:23):
Why can't you have these conversations, all the fucking time? And I hate-

Troy Giatras (36:26):
It's always happening. You've done it though.

Bob Simon (36:28):
It shouldn't be the speakeasy. It should be the speak loudly. You should be able to hear all of these conversations, right.

Bob Simon (36:33):
I just thought of that, fuck. 0.5, I'm there man. I'm telling you.

Bob Simon (36:38):
You too, what is your bourbon of proof, before we close the episode?

Bob Simon (36:43):
Where do you live? You like it hot, right? You like-

Troy Giatras (36:45):
Cast strength.

Bob Simon (36:46):
Cast strength guy.

Gene Nassif (36:47):
No, believe it or not. My favorite are the barrel proofs. But barrel proofs that are very, very low. So the old Dickel's that are in the high 80s, low 90s, those are the best.

Bob Simon (36:56):
Oh. Do you like a heavy pour?

Troy Giatras (36:59):
I like a heavy pour. So in South Carolina, we used to have the minis, a long time ago. I asked them, how do you make any money at the bar? When you're just pouring minis. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden, it was like, hey. No, I like a heavy pour, and I like it to be smooth.

Kristopher Hart (37:14):
Very light. 80 proof, 90 proof?

Troy Giatras (37:17):
Yes. Medium, to a little heavy. But not heavy, because my boys like it heavy.

Bob Simon (37:21):
We're going to close this episode. Kris Hart might fight you guys because he likes it a lot more hot, so we've had-

Troy Giatras (37:28):
Hot though.

Bob Simon (37:29):
Thank you guys, cheers.

Troy Giatras (37:30):
Thanks Bob.

Gene Nassif (37:32):
Thank you. [inaudible 00:37:34].

Kristopher Hart (37:33):
Thank you Gene.